'Proper' Alleluia verse (Immac. Conception)
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    I'm planning to use the LCM for Mass on the Immaculate Conception. I see that most* of the text tracks the LU (http://www.institute-christ-king.org/uploads/music/MassICoBVM_lg.pdf) except for the Alleluia verse. I'd really like the PIPs to hear the text of "Tota pulchra es". Is there any reason I can't substitute it? Also, is there an official (approved) translation I should be using? Thanks!

    * PS: I know the Resp. Pslam and the Gradual don't "track" because they're different animals and am not concerned with that here... just focusing on the Alleluia verse. Thanks!
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    The last time the Graduals, Tracts and Alleluias (from the Graduale) were given in official translation was with the 1964 Missale Romanum.

    Probably only about 1% of the Alleluia verses in the Lectionary match the Graduale (The only days that I can think of that more or less match are Christmas Vigil, Easter Sunday, and Pentecost Vigil and Day). None of the Tracts were used as the basis for any of the Lenten 'Gospel Verses' in the Lectionary, and, again, about 4% percent of Responsorial Psalms in the Lectionary are the same the Graduals (e.g. Christmas and Easter) and many of those that do match probably do so by reverse osmosis - on certain days the Lectionary give Ps. 23(22), and so when compiling the new Ordo Cantus Missae (and Graduale) the gave a Gradual with that text as a alternate.

    I sometimes use the Alleluia verses from the Graduale in English - I have used the translations given in the Gregorian Missal (the same book used for the texts for the processional chants in SEP); Palmer-Burgess Gradual; Anglican Use Gradual; also collections intended for the 1964 Missal (Interim Missal). And since someone gave me a 1964 Missal (Altar Missal) I think I may use that translation more.

    *Rant* The Lectionary is probably the one aspect of the Novus Ordo that bothers me the most, as being a complete break with the tradition of the Roman Rite as we have received it, and a complete fabrication of Bugnini's committee. And don't try to persuade me with the "Responsorial Psalm is only for read Masses" bologna - If the reformers wanted continuity with tradition they wouldn't have altered it, or altered it only slightly, i.e., retaining only the Alleluia verses from the Graduale, taken the Tracts as the basis for the Lenten 'Gospel Acclamations', and created the Responsorial Psalms by taking the texts of the existing Graduals and supplying extra [optional] verses of the psame psalm. *End Rant*
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    The last time the Graduals, Tracts and Alleluias (from the Graduale) were given in official translation was with the 1964 Missale Romanum.

    This statement contains two errors of fact.

    There was no 1964 Missale Romanum. There were both a 1962 Missale Romanum and a 1970 Missale Romanum. And there was a 1964 USA Sacramentary, much of it in English and based on the 1962 Missale Romanum but already containing some early liturgical revisions/concessions approved by the Congregation for Rites (Consilium).

    The second error has appeared more than once on this Forum. The English translation of "Graduals, Tracts and Alleluias (from the Graduale)" in that 1964 Sacramentary was never canonically approved by the National Conference of Catholic Bishop. Rather, as is stated in the September 1965 issue of the Newsletter of the then-Bishops' Commission on the Liturgical Apostolate, "The texts of the Proper parts, both the prayers and the prefaces, have been adapted from the Daily Missal of the Mystical Body (Maryknoll Missal). As the 1964 Sacramentary was always understood to be a stop-gap liturgical book until such time as the Latin Missale Romanum were to be completely revised, published and then translated into English, no effort was made by the NCCB (or ICEL) in the mid-1960's to translate anything more than was absolutely necessary, that is, the ordinary of the Mass. (And those texts did receive canonical approval of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops.) Everything else was lifted from the Maryknoll Missal. Thus, from their origin those texts were never intended for public proclamation or for singing. They were for the lay faithful to read silently while Mass was celebrated in Latin.

    I composed hundreds of settings of the propers from the 1964 Sacramentary during the late-1960's. And World Library Publications' Summit Series - more than 200 really fine musical settings which sold poorly and which contributed to the bankruptcy and ultimate sale of the company to J.S. Paluch - also used those texts. But those texts were never intended to be or remain "official."
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    Thanks for your replies. I forgot to mention that I'm a chant newbie, so a lot of that went over my head :-) But in the very simplest of terms, this is what I think I'm hearing:

    (1) Yes, I can substitute w/ the text from the Gradual.

    (2) It would acceptable to use a translation from the Gregorian Missal. In my example, the Alleluia text I can use is, "You are most fair, O Mary, and the taint of original sin dwells not within you." (page 676: http://media.musicasacra.com/books/gregorianmissal-eng.pdf).

    Do I have all that right? Thanks!
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Fr. Krisman:

    Firstly, I don't intend to sound argumentative, and I apologize if I sound so. You are probably right, since you lived through it and worked with it, but I have a couple questions to clear up my own misunderstanding, if you'd please bear with me.

    Secondly, I have a feeling that chonak might break this up into another thread.

    1: Are we talking about the same book, Father? My title page says:

    ROMAN MISSAL
    MISSALE ROMANUM

    Ex Decreto Sacrosancti Concilii
    Tridentini Restitutum
    Summorum Pontificum Cura Recognitum
    cum
    Versionibus Lingua Anglica Exaratis
    et a
    Coetu Episcoporum Civitatum
    Foederatarum Americae Septentrionalis
    Rite Approbatis
    Actis ab Apostolica Sede Confirmatis

    CATHOLIC BOOK PUBLISHING CO.
    NEW YORK
    1964


    Then, the only copyrights given are for the general Copyright of the whole book (National Catholic Welfare Conference), Scriptural readings (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine), and the "Scriptural verses adapted from The Book of Psalms" (again CCD). There is no mention here of another copyright, e.g., Proper Antiphons taken [or adapted] from Daily Missal of the Mystical Body (Maryknoll Missal), (c) Copyright 19-- by the Maryknoll Fathers. &c. Why would the NCCB not acknowledge the originator of those texts and any Copyright held by the authors? Again, not saying you're wrong, just asking why this was not mentioned in the Altar book, not that you'd know the answer to that, but to me, at least, it's weird that they omitted that. There is a Decree from the NCCB (pg. iv) which says:
    1 The Mystery of the Holy Eucharist

    a. For the lessons---the version translated fro the original languages by members of the Catholic Biblical Association of America and sponsored by the Episcopal Committee of the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, including those not yet published;
    b. For the ordinary parts pertaining to the people---the translations appended to this decree;
    c. For the proper parts pertaining to the people---the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine version, described above, of the Book of Psalms and other books of the Bible, adapted, to the extent necessary, to the text of the Roman missal.


    Again, no mention was made of the Maryknoll Missal, only the Confraternity version of the Bible. Am I missing something? Were the Maryknoll texts themselves taken from the Confraternity version and then adapted to fit the Latin of the Roman Missal?

    (After the copyright notices, of course, appear the Decrees from the NCCB (one in Latin, then the second in English from which the above was extracted); the letter from Card. Lercaro (Sac. Cong. for Rites); Quo Primum (Pius V); Cum sanctissimum Eucharistiae Sacramentum (Clement VIII); Si quid est (Urban VIII); Rubricarum instructum (John XXIII); Decree from Cicognani (SCR); and the Rubricae Generales.)

    Considering that the texts of the propers would have been read aloud by the priest at Low Mass, would they then not be raised to the level of official texts by virtue of that use? I ask because I don't know. Thanks.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    @Salieri: Yes, we're referring to the same book. From the info you supplied, the first part of the title, namely, "MISSALE ROMANUM Ex Decreto Sacrosancti Concilii Tridentini Restitutum Summorum Pontificum Cura Recognitum" is the full title of the 1962 Missale Romanum. And the second part, "cum Versionibus Lingua Anglica Exaratis et a Coetu Episcoporum Civitatum Foederatarum Americae Septentrionalis, Rite Approbatis Actis ab Apostolica Sede Confirmatis," refers to the English material. But there was no revised Latin typical edition of the Missale Romanum which was pubished in 1964 and which was used as the source for the interim Sacramentary. The source was the 1962 edition.

    I'm at a loss to answer your more specific questions. I don't own a copy of that interim Sacramentary, and I never used it as a priest. (I was ordained in 1973.)

    I'm also at a loss as to why a copyright notice for the texts from the Maryknoll Missal is not included. I believe the publication date for the edition of that Maryknoll Missal used in the interim Sacramentary was from 1960 or 1961. And there was at least one edition of the Maryknoll Missal published after the interim Sacramentary had been published and which included the Ordinary of the Mass (approved by the NCCB) which was in the interim Sacramentary.

    And, no, just because a priest reads something at Mass does not raise that text to the level of "official text" or grant it "canonical approval."
    Thanked by 2Salieri CHGiffen