"Promulgation" of GIRM?
  • I was at a gathering of young adult Catholics recently at which several seminarians were present. They were talking about liturgical matters in a sort of light-hearted way, and one of them remarked that the 2011 GIRM had "never been promulgated" in our diocese and that it was really "anything goes" in our diocese (we don't really HAVE to follow the GIRM) until the bishop officially "promulgates" the new GIRM.

    This strikes me as ridiculous on its face, but is there something I don't know here? I read this article at EWTN ( http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=370213&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu= ) but I'm not sure I completely understand. Could someone explain?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    A document goes into legal force when it is promulgated (officially published). In the past, there have been cases of a document not going into force in a certain country because it wasn't officially published there. For example, it is said that the papal decree which suppressed the Jesuit order in 1773 did not take effect in Russia at the time because the Empress Catherine prevented the papal representative in that country from publishing it.

    The current GIRM, of course, is contained in every altar copy of the Roman Missal, so it has been published in the United States. I think someone's being facetious if he wants to contend that it needs to be promulgated specifically in each diocese; or if he suggests that an individual diocesan bishop (rather than the nuncio or the bishops' conference) would be the relevant authority to promulgate a document of the Holy See. But that's just my opinion.

    I believe the most credentialed and knowledgeable expert on canon law who participates in the forum regularly is Fr. Krisman. Perhaps he could comment on the seminarian's suggestion.
  • I think it brings up a question frequently posed on this forum: what ARE they teaching in seminaries?
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I think many work harder at getting around the rules than they would by simply following them.
  • It isn't as though the rules in the GIRM are particularly hard to follow. I can't understand how so many parishes just can't be bothered to look it up and seem to do whatever the hell they like.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    "I think many work harder at getting around the rules than they would by simply following them."

    This. One cannot *credibly* complain about rubricism when one spends much effort in devising ways to get around rubrics. Another example of the very human tendency to replicate (in mirror image) what we complain about.
  • Good heavens! The current GIRM came into force on the 25th of June 2000. It is universal law.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    This is my extremely recent response to "what ARE they teaching in seminaries?"
    We're staffed by two classmates ordained two years ago whose major seminary liturgics courses are taught by a much respected professor who occasionally posts here.
    One is a younger, barely GenX, mannerly gentleman, the other a late vocation Boomer that I suspect is very close to my age (63.)
    One of these two, both recently assigned, is a very attentive celebrant/homilist who, as a pastoral associate, makes a clear effort to listen deeply, speak softly but in a wisdom that's self-evident, and communicates honestly and directly.
    The other gentleman, more recently assigned, has inserted his presence and immense personality into every ministerial pie in the parish, projected that there are myriad deficiences in others (such as "restoring" the Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children for school Masses!) and does so with a bluster and fire in every situation requiring collaboration and consensus.
    Long story shortened, it may not always be about what is happening and being inculcated at seminary, it may be about discerning what sorts of personalities and psychologies are receiving this input, and the discernment of all superior offices as how to advance and deal with each ordinand's proclivities.
    BTW, Hi Paul.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Hi, Charles. I prescind from the specific priests you mention. But tell us more about the issue of the Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with Children for school Masses.

    Seminaries do not recruit. Vocation directors recruit. Seminaries form the seminarians that bishops send and that seminaries vet. Seminaries do not rubberstamp the candidates that bishops send but often reject candidates. Seminaries annually report to bishops about the seminarians. Dioceses vet the seminarians on their internships. Bishops ordain whom they will, sometimes against the advice of the seminary.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Paul, I prescind as well. And who's Charles?
    As for Melofluent, I quoth the famed "Sgt. Schulz," "I know nuhs-zeeng."
    The observation by Melofluent is non-specific, meant not to ascribe "fault" to seminaries, bishops, whomever. Peter wasn't Andrew, Matthew wasn't Judas Iscariot, BVM was not Magdalen, in other words, we come in all sorts of flavors.
    The really amazing thing about our hierarchical infrastructure at all levels is that the re-assignment of one flavor can effect the local institution across the gamut of magnitude, from zip to Vesuvius. C'est ecclesia, que sera....
    Oh, I forgot...apparently because there is still extant a licit version of the EP for Masses with Children, rife with those little accreted embolisms during the Preface and onward, that must mean "Why aren't we doing that?" Uh....
  • Forgive me, Melo; I thought I was responding to Charles Culbreth.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    melofluent: inserted his presence and immense personality into every ministerial pie

    Must be a clone of a guest who provided
    a two year long liturgical mauling, ending last July.

    collaboration and consensus

    Sigh. Yeah. Lots of those
    (but you must make a triple alliteration by prepending another c-word, contrived).
    A month into the tenure I was muttering
    "Ignorance and enthusiasm is a dangerous cocktail"
    and imagining
    http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/50.41
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Forgive me, Melo; I thought I was responding to Charles Culbreth.


    From the looks of that picture the old boy is having a rough year and aging rapidly.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    CDub, you have no idea!
    And there was great rejoicing!
    I need some fava beans and a nice Kee-an-tee.