The long-murmured-about "musicology project"
  • I've been muttering about a little project I've been working on. No, it's not done, not by a long shot. But I think it's far enough along to be somewhat useful.

    catholicromantic.jeffreyquick.com

    The idea is to compile a bibliography of Catholic liturgical composers from the French Revolution to 1964. with biographies, links to works, and some annotations. The model is the Rehrig Heritage Encyclopedia of Band Music, a resource that has saved my butt innumerable times in cataloging obscure 19th-c composers (and which I have used in this project). Here's the scope: original sacred works in Latin published (or created in manuscript) between 1789-1964 and intended for church rather than the concert hall. Borderline cases will err on the side of inclusiveness; many orchestral masses were used in church with organ accompaniment, and there's the Viennese orchestral mass tradition. Also, I have included printings of Latin Masses that were reprinted in English in the wake of Vatican II. Taste does not enter into it at all; there is some outrageously bad music here, as well as the occasional diamond in the rough. The idea is to create an unfiltered view.

    There's a template I use for composer entries (not technological enough to put up yet). Form of composer name matches where possible the Library of Congress authority file. Sources for data thus far have included WorldCat, IMSLP, CPDL, Caecilia, ads on music. Scans of music include those available online from various national libraries, and some of my own (for pre-1923 works). There is a list by genre that includes only the score files; right now it's more a demo than a real tool. Likewise, I know there are 10 million Bartolucci pieces out there; I just haven't done them yet...ditto Bruckner.

    If anyone wants to play, in any capacity, you're more than welcome to. What I need: scans of pieces, misc. information, cleanup, research, entries, tech help. If you want to be a contributor, I'll have to make you so; I'd left the wiki open and got into MAJOR spam problems (why there are 79,000 views on the main page).
    Thanked by 1igneus
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,804
    FYI, the link worketh not.

    I can scan my copies of Leonard's Mass in F and Mass in E-flat for you if you want.
  • Works now...this site's link widget doesn't think for me, I see.
    Yes, please, that'll pretty much complete Mr. Leonard (except for figuring who exactly he was; I don't think he was the guy who most library catalogers have thought he was.)
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 468
    I'd be happy to contribute here and there. I see both William Lloyd Webber and Janacek are missing.
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 468
    And Messiaen, Durufle, and Faure. Now I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding the scope?
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,713
    I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding the scope?

    Me, too. Schubert wrote a number of works that would seem to fit the era. And I wonder about Vaughan Williams, whose Mass in G minor is definitely in the ballpark. Still, it's a noble endeavor.
    Thanked by 1Jahaza
  • The big guys are pretty available, so they aren't my first priority, nor are guys who are mostly in copyright. But they should be there eventually. Jahaza, did WLW and LJ write anything in Latin that would be useable in church?

    I go around about guys like RVW. Definitely not a "Catholic church music composer", but he wrote music for the Catholic church. I figure I can include on the basis of one piece (esp. if it's a great piece and available for download)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,380
    ...not done, not by a long shot.
    seems to set forth the intended scope clearly enough, but I wonder if the wheel is being reinvented: rather than another new Gounod page, it would be nice to sort out the gaps and loose ends on CPDL.
  • Why it's not reinventing the wheel:
    1. Filters out Latin Liturgical music from other music
    2. Includes scans of old editions (as in IMSLP), new editions (CPDL), performances (YouTube etc.), and information on works not available in any of the above formats (WorldCat etc.), in one convenient location.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,576
    Jeffrey, sorry that I have so many questions ...

    [...] compile a bibliography of Catholic liturgical composers
    [...] scope: original sacred works in Latin published (or created in manuscript) between 1789-1964 and intended for church
    [...] err on the side of inclusiveness
    [...] create an unfiltered view
    [...] big guys are pretty available, so they aren't my first priority

    So, really, any composer who set 1789-1964 a Latin text,
    intended for Mass or Office or devotion?

    Sources for data thus far have included WorldCat, IMSLP, CPDL, Caecilia, ads on music.
    Is there some methodical process to avoid research overlap or lacunae
    such as a list of Sources (e.g., periodicals), each item
    appended with "must harvest" or
    appended with "harvested by LOGIN on start-date done-DATE"?
    If there is a "hit", should that composer page specify that Source?

    Anglosphere
    Your website main page includes this word.
    To what should we apply it?
  • Scope question: yes.
    No, there isn't a methodical process.There probably should be. Let me think about that, and draw up a process page.
    Anglosphere: This project has experienced mission creep, in that I've done quite a bit with French, German and Belgian traditions. I found quickly that it was really an international repertoire, with American publishers like McLaughlin & Reilly or WLSM publishing European repertoire (and of course, Europeans becoming Americans and creating repertoire here.) Being an American, the sites with the best and most accessible info will be American. But "Anglosphere" is "anywhere they speak English, to whatever degree". Australia has actually been quite fruitful; they've done a very nice job of digitizing Australian resources (See Stephen Moreno entry for an example.) One of the initial impetuses (impeti?) for this was a friend's request for music he sang in Karachi ca. 1970, so all former British colonies are fair game... DID native Indians/Pakistanis write/publish Catholic church music?

    Much of what was published isn't held by libraries. Much held by libraries hasn't been digitized. I'm doing what I can to abuse ILL and get things up there.
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,576
    doing what I can to abuse ILL and get things up there

    ILL == (Music) Inter Library Loan ??
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,382
    William Lloyd Webber ought to qualify if RVW does. His Missa "Princeps Pacis" was written in 1962 for choir and organ. It's in Latin, in a very English and Romantic style but I don't think it was really for the concert hall. He also has other Latin motets (and a Mass written in 1979), though I'm not sure of their compositional date.

    Benjamin Britten should be on the list as well. His Missa Brevis was written for Westminster Cathedral.

    However, I am sure there are plenty of bad and small fish to fry before getting to these to gentlemen.
  • As you say, these guys are within scope, in that they wrote Catholic music. Much of what I've done has been driven by the existence of scans and editions, something which doesn't apply to the above composers.

    If you want, I'll make you a contributor, and you can do them.
  • There's now a workflow. Go to "About Catholic Romantic Music", at the bottom of the main page, and it's linked to the end of that page.