Well, as a matter of simple historical fact, between 1903 and the Second Vatican Council, French organists considered Tra le S to be pretty much a dead letter on the alternatim (note spelling) issue; and they kept up their alternatim practices anyway, in a manner which Couperin would have broadly recognized. Edward Higginbottom's chapter on this topic in The Cambridge Companion to the Organ is well worth reading.

Thanks to R J Stove for getting the method of performance known as "alternatim" correctly spelled, since my understanding is that the participle "alternatum" is not correct in this context.

Alternatim
A specific kind of antiphony, by which traditional chant alternates with newly composed polyphony, almost always using the traditional response as a cantus firmus. In vocal music alternatim is usually practiced for the verses of a psalm or canticle. In an organ mass, alternatim is applied to the ordinary and proper prayers of the liturgy, with organ versets substituting for the chant at certain traditional points.

The Wikipedia article on Alternatim points out that:

A large amount of musical repertoire was specifically written for alternatim performance, with Heinrich Isaac and Charles Justin (1830-1873) as notable composers. Alternatim performance of the Mass was common throughout Europe in the seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth centuries.

The Catholic church banned the practice in 1903 by Pope Pius X in Motu proprio. The practice did, however, inform the works of Olivier Messiaen who wrote pseudo-versets for his many liturgical organ works, especially his Messe de la Pentecôte (1950).

There is a good discussion right here at the Forum of Alternatim Mass in Practice.

My take is that it is very valid in places where it has historically been done. If you're suddenly made organist of a prominent French Cathedral - I'd say keep doing it. I wouldn't necessarily introduce it in the United States.

Popes come and popes go. Blessed be the name of the Lord. In the meantime, ask the French if you want to know how to do it right.

...provided the text is recited...in the sanctuary whilst the verset is played...

Ach! 'Authenticity' seems to get ever more complicated!!!
Um, does this mean that in performing de Grigny's Verbum supernum 'authentically', one needs not only a small schola to sing the even numbered stanzas (slowly, with a French accent, & with ornamented chant), but some other 'assisiting person' off to the side audibly reciting the words of the odd stanzas whilst the organ plays the versets???

Some of the ones I have heard did not omit any text. The text was sung, then an organ "verse" then more text was sung. Overall, the effect was stunning.

In view of the comments just above, it seems that the practice of alternatim may be more well known amongst organists than others. This, then, is the alternation of lines of chant by the schola or choir and the organ in the ordinary of the mass, of verses of canticles and stanzas of hymns at lauds and vespers throughout much of Europe from the late mediaeval era and continuing in some places throughout the XIXth century and into the XXth. Besides yet lingering here and there in Catholic places, it is also alive and well amongst Lutherans (who are apt to think it uniquely Lutheran) in their hymnody. Alternatim performance of liturgical texts is derived ultimately from the ancient practice of antiphonal singing (as is chant and polyphony in alternation), the organ standing in for one of the antiphonal groups of singers. Presumably, whilst the organ is playing its verset the congregation are meditating on the respective text. These organ versets are often based motivically or in sustained cantus firmus style on the respective chant melos. As history unfolded its successive 'periods' the cantus firmus seems to have become less and less a feature. Much, much more could be said about this fascinating practice, which, with the right congregation can be a spiritual plus, representing, as it does, a highly refined mode of worship. (Too, I would answer to some above that using alternatim versets as mere interludes between select stanzas is not the same thing as alternatim, in which the organ substitues for verses or stanzas... which is not to say that there is anything intrinsically wrong with 'interludes'... or with alternatim.)

If any of you are in or near Dallas at 4.00 pm on Sunday the 26th October, you are invited to a recital I am playing on the new organ at Holy Trinity Seminary in the Dallas suburb of Irving. The recital honours the Trinity and features the gloria from Couperin's mass for parishes complete with chant and organ in alternatim fashion. Other Trinitarian works are Bach's kyries from the Clavier-Ubung, and a trio of trios on the Trinitarian office hymn, Immensa et Una Trinitas, by Gregory Hamilton, music director and composer in residence at the seminary. Other works are by Buxtehude, Tomkins, Tournemire, and Bach's great Fantasie and Fugue in G-Minor.

I nearly always program something from the alternatim literature on recitals. There is something compelling about this sacred conversation about God between singers and organ. Too, this was a near universal feature of Catholic worship for centuries and is one of several means by which the organ participated (not 'played at' - but participated) in liturgy, especially on great feasts. Other times the organ played within the liturgy in historical times included the playing of canzonas, or voluntaries, or ricercari, etc., between epistle and gospel or between the pro- and anaphora, or as short 'intonation pieces' giving the pitch for psalmody, motets, etc. (It would have occured to no one to give a pitch by just thumping out a [tacky] 'note': one played [improvised!] a relatively brief-but-artful tone- or key-setting piece.)

...doesn't make a lick of sense liturgically.

Whereas listening to the florescent lighting after the Lesson and then hearing the blowing of a pitch pipe makes us feel we're not mere mute spectators.
There are some quite practical liturgical considerations behind the venerable tradition, such as elegantly establishing the key, resting of voices when a second choir isn't available and fostering meditation (even homilizing) on the text. As for 'proclaiming' text I take it Ben hasn't yet had the (dubious) pleasure of hearing a 4 verse communion hymn as an unaccompanied organ solo.

Maybe it is relative. Perhaps the often impoverished and minimalist practices of liturgy in the U.S., reinforced by the archaeologism resulting from Vatican II, has made it seem like what we do is the norm. It isn't and wasn't. Liturgy in other times and places was made to be as glorious and magnificent as humanly possible. It was seen as a work divine in nature and intent, and no expense or effort was spared to make it outstanding. Now, we shuffle in, listen to someone mumble scripture and chant - chant if we are lucky - then stumble out the door as soon as possible. What's wrong with THIS picture?

The statement about those horrid pitch pipes is true. They have a nasty sound to them - kind of like a constipated kazoo.

I will go with this alternatim any day. Hurray for the French and d*mn the Italians if they object.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDqL6pjpjY

If I might express a reservation about the "organ Mass", I've never seen an organist play while kneeling, and reducing the time an organist kneels is like reducing the time ..... well, I'm not in favor of reducing the time an organist kneels -- so I don't have people jump on the image and drag the thread off-topic.

I continue to think that choirs should kneel for the Sanctus, (the Mysterium Fidei if they sing for an OF Mass) the Agnus Dei and the Communion Antiphon. Not only can it be done -- I've both seen it done, and led it -- it doesn't diminish the quality of music when done properly and it allows all of us to spend more time on our knees.

Alternatim is not a French thing, it was once near universal, as the Caeremoniale Episcoporum attests. And this is what the Catholic Encyclopedia says about this:

According to the present legislation organ music is allowed on all joyful occasions, both for purely instrumental pieces (voluntaries) and as accompaniment. The organ alone may even take the place of the voices in alternate verses at Mass or in the Office, provided the text so treated be recited by someone in an audible voice while the organ is played. Only the Credo is excepted from this treatment, and in any case the first verse of each chant and all the verses at which any liturgical action takes place — such as the "Te ergo quæsumus", the "Tantum ergo", the "Gloria Patri" — should be sung.

By liturgical action here the verses are meant at which the choir is to genuflect or bow.

The Council of Trent did ban organ Credos, of which G. Cavazzoni's are probably the last examples. Isaac wrote many alternatim Credos for choir which were intended to be completed by organ verses, though nothing would now prevent their use with plainchant instead.

I continue to think that choirs should kneel for the Sanctus, (the Mysterium Fidei if they sing for an OF Mass) the Agnus Dei and the Communion Antiphon. Not only can it be done -- I've both seen it done, and led it -- it doesn't diminish the quality of music when done properly and it allows all of us to spend more time on our knees.

I don't know where to begin. The organist, nor choir, should be kneeling when presenting music. And to do so, even if one can, strikes me as quite ostentatious unless the choir is in fact sitting in the pews among the congregation.

Would not the priest have recited the ENTIRE text in the preconciliar vespers, or would that just be for the Mass?

I am busy at the organ during mass, could conceivably kneel and get my creaky knees back up to play the next item on the agenda if I chose to do so. I do not so choose. At the diocesan level it has been stated that there are three options at mass - kneel, stand, or sit. All are permitted and are equally valid. Why sitting? Some folks are not in good enough shape to kneel or stand. I am in a loft where the congregation doesn't see us. I allow my choir members to do any of the three approved options. As long as they are ready to sing at the appropriate times, I have no complaints.

Aside from some viscerally allergic reaction, what do you and Charles have against the practice?

I have nothing against the practice, I just view it as an abuse that developed years after what was prescribed behavior in the earlier church. Why it developed is beyond me, since there was never a good reason to turn a celebration of the risen Lord into an act of penitence.

Besides, it drives the Tridentines crazy if I don't kneel. That's worth its weight in gold. LOL.

Have any of you stopped to consider that perhaps people (even musicians, as amazing as that is) associate kneeling with prayer? I'll hang up and listen...

I have nothing against the practice, I just view it as an abuse that developed years after what was prescribed behavior in the earlier church.

In the East, Stand (if you can).
In the West, Kneel (if you can).
Done.

Eastern practice is not better than Western practice; Western practice is not better than Eastern practice.

This reminds me of the Pierogi Ladies arguing about the cheese/potato ratio for the filling: "My Babcia did it this way!" "Well, my Mamusia did it this way!"

As far as I can tell, the practice of organ alternatum is no longer liturgically legal. However, it wouldn't be wrong to play a short verset in the same tone as the chant to give the choir a bit of a breather. In many modern pieces for Choir and Organ it is not uncommon for there to be short periods where only the organ plays.

However, the above applies to typical parish Masses, not ultra-events complete with deacons, sub-deacons, a battalion of altar servers, (etc.) That is to say, there is a time and place for everything.

And Charles, why do you claim that Word-primacy is 'a prot thing'? Ratzinger claimed that (truly) sacred music 'enfleshes' the Word. Chant melos is typically built upon the meaning of the Word it illuminates. Large choral works of the masters also utilize word-painting to one extent or the other, particularly when using sacred text.

Prot? Really??

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On the "word" thing, it seems we are scriptured to death since Vatican II with all the extra readings. Michael Davies used to joke about Ogg begat Yig who begat Ugg, or something similar. Some of the extra readings have little or any importance or relevance.

Salieri,

Un-purple that comment!

God bless,

Chris

What is unpurple mean?
Many thank you's.

True Alternatim:

Choir 1: You started it!
Choir 2: Did not!
Choir 1: Did, too!
Choir 2: Did not!
Choir 1: Pfffffftttt!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F0hWcDBhpY

Antonio, many thank you's!