Communion antiphons in new Sacramentary
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    Perhaps this has been commented on before, but has anyone noticed that the communion antiphons for Sundays as printed in the new sacramentary are different that what we have in the chant books? For example, for Oct 5th, 27 OT; The Grad. Rom. Communio is: In Salutario (My soul Aspires) but in the New Sacramentary, there are two options: The Lord is good to those who hope in him...and; Though many, we are one body, for we partake of the one bread...

    Does anyone know how extensive the antiphons are changed?
    It is a little disheartening for those of us who have sung the antiphons for years from the GR. I can't even find musical settings of the two options given in the sacramentary, and I have looked through all of ordinary time! Are they brand new? Education please.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    Bugnini and his Consilium aside, the only musical settings for the RM antiphons that I know of are in Richard Rice's excellent Simple Choral Gradual.
  • The communion antiphons in the Roman Missal are intended to be spoken, not sung. See for example Paul VI, Apostolic Constitution Missale Romanum (April 3, 1969):

    Even though the text of the Roman Gradual, at least that which concerns the singing, has not been changed, still, for a better understanding, the responsorial psalm, which St. Augustine and St. Leo the Great often mention, has been restored, and the Introit and Communion antiphons have been adapted for read Masses.


    Also, Bugnini in his The Reform of the Liturgy 1948-1975 explains that for sung masses, the Graduale Romanum is to be used, and that for read masses the antiphons from the Roman Missal are to be read.

    The adaptation for read masses is quite extensive. For example, on Sundays in Ordinary Time, only 18 communion antiphons from the Roman Missal match the text from the Graduale Romanum.

    See also Jeff Ostrowski's article at ccwatershed.org.
    Thanked by 1ghmus7
  • ghmus7, you are not the first person to have been perplexed by this problem. May I suggest the following article for further reading;

    http://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2014/may/25/mystery-missale-vs-graduale-has-been-solved/

    There are a number of settings which use the RM antiphons - including several from the following list:

    http://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2014/aug/11/11-entrance-antiphon-comparisons-audio/
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    Thank you all, the point about reading vs. singing is a good point.
  • All of these things regarding the origins of the Missal antiphons are true. It should be noted, however, that the most recent edition of the GIRM specifically allows them to be sung as Option 1. As Rogue63 mentions above, however, Richard Rice's work is the only one I am familiar with that uses these as the basis of music.
  • the most recent edition of the GIRM specifically allows them to be sung as Option 1.

    But keep in mind that this is a USA adaptation of the GIRM. For the rest of the world, the Missal antiphons are meant to be spoken.
    Thanked by 1bonniebede
  • What does the original Latin of the current GIRM say? I was led to believe it was the 1st option we are used to?
  • Latin from the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani:

    48. Peragitur autem a schola et populo alternatim, vel simili modo a cantore et populo, vel totus a populo vel a schola sola. Adhiberi potest sive antiphona cum suo psalmo in Graduali Romano vel in Graduali simplici exstans, sive alius cantus, actioni sacrae, diei vel temporis indoli congruus, cuius textus a Conferentia Episcoporum sit approbatus.

    Si ad introitum non habetur cantus, antiphona in Missali proposita recitatur sive a fidelibus, sive ab aliquibus ex ipsis, sive a lectore, sin aliter ab ipso sacerdote, qui potest etiam in modum monitionis initialis (cf. n. 31) eam aptare.


    87. Pro cantu ad communionem adhiberi potest aut antiphona ex Graduali Romano sive cum psalmo sive sola, aut antiphona cum psalmo e Graduali simplici, aut alius cantus congruus a Conferentia Episcoporum approbatus. Cantatur sive a schola sola, sive a schola vel cantore cum populo.

    Si autem non habetur cantus, antiphona in Missali proposita recitari potest sive a fidelibus, sive ab aliquibus ex ipsis, sive a lectore, sin aliter ab ipso sacerdote postquam ipse communicavit, antequam Communionem distribuat fidelibus.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • At the same time, the Missal antiphons are just scripture quotations, and as such have just as much right to be sung as any other scriptural texts. The Missal antiphon for this Sunday is Psalm 42 (Like the Deer that yearns for running streams...). I don't understand why because it is in the missal Psalm 42 is suddenly not 'meant to be sung'. For myself, I plan to use my own simple congregational setting of the Missal antiphon, alternating with choir or cantor verses from the psalm, and followed at the choir mass by Sicut Cervus.

    I would like more clarity from some here - are you arguing that Psalm 42 is not as good of a choice as the Graduale antiphon? In which case, your actual problem is simply that the Missal antiphon is different from the Graduale; not that it is not meant to be sung. I could understand that argument. What I can't understand is arguing that some scripture passage is not meant to be sung, simply because it is in the Missal.

    Personally, I see the Missal antiphons as Option 1 "lite". However, since I am currently composing congregational communion antiphons for the year I sometimes opt to use the (generally shorter and simpler) Missal antiphons instead of the Graduale text. Since the Graduale text often needs to be shortened to make it usable for a congregational refrain, I see this a six-of-one half-a-dozen-of-the-other. In other words, if you are not doing the full Graduale text anyway it may be just as well to use a full text from the Missal. At least as far as congregational antiphons are concerned.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I don't understand why because it is in the missal Psalm 42 is suddenly not 'meant to be sung'


    The "not meant to be sung" is just a historical point, not a statement on its appropriateness.

    Also, on a lot of Sundays (especially "in Season" - Advent, Christmas, Lent, Easter), the GR and the RM antiphons line up.
    Thanked by 2Andrew Motyka PeterJ
  • ghmus7, if you'll excuse the shameless plug, my own little offering in this space ("Entrance, Offertory and Communion Chants") uses the antiphons from RM for the En/Com (and GR for the Off). I don't know if it is the sort of thing you are looking for, but you can find it linked here:

    http://musicasacra.com/music/english-propers/

    Book 1 = just the antiphons
    Book 2 = antiphons with some suggested "seasonal" psalm verses
    Book 3 = book 2, but in 4-part - for an organ accompaniment or maybe even a SATB choir

    Quite a number of places (parishes, a seminary, etc) use, or have used, it quite happily and find it useful. I do not pretend that my settings have musical merit compared to other versions out there - if I can put it like that - but the work has certain features that I know some people find useful in a "typical" parish context, which is what I was aiming for.

    Anyhow, thought I should share the link seeing that you are looking specifically for RM settings.
    Thanked by 2SrEleanor Ignoto
  • ... oh, and they are "cleared" for use by the relevant ecclesiastical authorities in England & Wales and the USA.
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    What I can't understand is arguing that some scripture passage is not meant to be sung, simply because it is in the Missal.

    I would like more clarity from some here - are you arguing that Psalm 42 is not as good of a choice as the Graduale antiphon? In which case, your actual problem is simply that the Missal antiphon is different from the Graduale; not that it is not meant to be sung. I could understand that argument. What I can't understand is arguing that some scripture passage is not meant to be sung, simply because it is in the Missal.


    Jared, I agree. I have been puzzling over the "spoken, not sung" argument for years. I have read all of the Ostrowski, Tietze, and Bugnini references that have been posted on this site, but those have not clarified this issue for me, because page 891 of the Bugnini book keeps being cited.

    I think it is important to read the "intended to be recited, not sung" quote in its full context.

    Page 890 and 891 of Bugnini's The Reform of the Liturgy: 1948-1975 discuss Study Group 14, which in 1964 was assigned to study the various forms of singing in the Mass. After their meetings, the group "had to wait for decisions on the structure and euchological texts of the Missal."

    Then, Bugnini continues (according to the English translation of the original Italian):
    Meanwhile, especially as use of the vernacular in the liturgy was extended, the situation changed completely. The principal role in choosing and adopting repertories of songs for celebrations in the vernacular had to be left to the episcopal conferences; a Roman group could only provide general criteria for passing judgment. The entrance and communion antiphons of the Missal were intended to be recited, not sung, and to inspire the creation of suitable songs in the vernacular.
    As a result of all this, group 14 could do nothing but offer technical assistance.


    It seems like there has been a lot of emphasis placed on this "recited, not sung" quote taken from a description of the early Study Group 14, but not a lot of emphasis has been placed on Bugnini's commentary about the actual General Instruction of the Roman Missal (the GIRM obviously came after Study Group 14!).

    On page 387, Bugnini says:

    This document [the GIRM] prescribes how each "sung" text is to be handled when the Mass is actually a Mass with singing and when the Mass is simply read. The entrance and communion antiphons, for example, are to be sung or read for their value in showing the meaning of the celebration and feast.



    To me, it seems logical that the Church hierarchy wanted these new antiphonal texts to be spoken at the very least. After all, there was not enough time to create new melodies for these vernacular texts before the implementation of the reform.
    Thanked by 2PeterJ Earl_Grey
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    PeterJ, we used one of your antiphons a while back! Thanks for writing them. :-)
    Thanked by 1PeterJ
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Ignoto, I don't think Bugnini's commentary is dealing clearly with the distinction which the GIRM and the Apostolic Constitution make.

    The following early documents are at:
    http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/girmall.htm

    Pope Paul VI's apostolic constitution Missale Romanum (1969) seems to be saying: for sung Masses, the antiphon in the Graduale Romanum is used; for spoken Masses, the antiphon, possibly revised, in the Missal is used.
    The text of the "Graduale Romanum" has not been changed as far as the music is concerned. In the interest of their being more readily understood, however, the responsorial psalm (which St. Augustine and St. Leo the Great often mention) as well as the entrance and communion antiphons have been revised for use in Masses that are not sung.


    On the other hand, the Foreword to the 1975 U.S. GIRM, provided by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, treats the Missal antiphons as though they could be sung, and yet says that it is expected that substitute songs will be used in most cases; or that the antiphon will be adapted into informal introductory remarks.

    Although the Sacramentary is a book of presidential prayers said by the priest, for the sake of completeness this edition does contain the brief sung antiphons for the entrance and communion processions. These are printed in smaller type in order to indicate that they are not ordinarily said by the priest and indeed are not parts of a Sacramentary.

    The general instruction takes for granted that there will be singing at the entrance of the priest and other ministers (and at the communion rite; see nos. 26, 56, 83, 119), certainly in the Sunday celebration of the Eucharist. When the antiphons are set to music, they may be used for this purpose, i.e., as refrains to psalms. Ordinarily, however, it is expected that full use will be made of the decision to employ appropriate substitutes sung by the congregation with a cantor or choir. For the United States the National Conference of Catholic Bishops has given the criteria for texts to be sung as entrance songs. (See "Notes to the General Instruction," no. 26, below.)

    Only in the absence of song is the entrance antiphon used as a spoken or recited text. Since these antiphons are too abrupt for communal recitation, it is preferable when there is no singing that the priest (or the deacon, other minister, or commentator) adapt the antiphon and incorporate it in the presentation of the Mass of the day. After the initial greeting, "the priest, deacon, or other minister may very briefly introduce the Mass of the day" (Order of Mass, no. 3). The adaptation of the text of the entrance antiphon for this purpose is suggested by the Congregation for Divine Worship (Instruction on Particular Calendars and Offices, June 24, 1970, no. 40a).


    The notion that the Missal antiphons, often rather prolix in comparison to the authentic antiphons, are "too abrupt for communal recitation" is a puzzling opinion.

    The Foreword's inclination to discourage both the singing of the Graduale antiphon and the recitation of the Missal antiphon seems to be at odds with the plain text of the 1975 GIRM itself:

    26. The entrance song is sung alternately either by the choir and the congregation or by the cantor and the congregation; or it is sung entirely by the congregation or by the choir alone. The antiphon and psalm of the "Graduale Romanum" or "The Simple Gradual" may be used, or another song that is suited to this part of the Mass, the day, or the seasons and that has a text approved by the conference of bishops.

    If there is no singing for the entrance, the antiphon in the Missal is recited either by the faithful, by some of them, or by a reader; otherwise it is recited by the priest after the greeting.


    Also:
    152. If there is no entrance song or communion song and the antiphons in the Missal are not said by the faithful, the reader recites them at the proper time.
    Thanked by 2PeterJ Ignoto
  • As Jeff Ostrowski points out in the article I linked above: "...it’s not forbidden to sing the Missal text. Liturgical law has allowed this since 1970, and no one disputes this." *

    For vernacular propers, I think we need to remember that the question is not: "is it illegitimate to sing the MR text"? The issue which people differ on seems to be, where the MR/GR texts do not align: "is it better to sing the GR text?" My thoughts in this regard are as follows.

    Referring to the GIRM for England & Wales, for the Entrance Chant:
    "In the dioceses of England Wales the Entrance Chant may be chosen from among the following: the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum or the Graduale Simplex, or another chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year and whose text has been approved by the Conference of Bishops of England and Wales."

    1. Let us accept that the ordering of these options does indicate an order of preference - GR first, then GS and then other.

    2. For the Entrance/Communion Chant "first option", the GIRM refers us to the antiphon *from* (or perhaps this should be "in"?) the GR (smvaroode provides the latin above: "antiphona... in Graduali Romano").

    So, strictly speaking, for Hebdomada XXIII Communion *chant* the GIRM first option refers us to the antiphon "Vovete, et reddite Domine Deo vestro..." which I find in the GR open in front of me now.

    In my opinion, the GIRM is strictly referring me to the chant I am looking at here - i.e. the chant, comprising the music and the text, found in the GR. I think the GIRM is saying that it is the *chants* in the GR which take pride of place.

    3. Even if one thinks that the GIRM "first option" is just referring to the *text* of the antiphon in the GR (rather than the chant in its totality), the text I am looking at here is the Latin text "Vovete, et reddite Domine Deo vestro..." . I am not looking at "Make vows unto the Lord your God...".

    4. So whether you are using the wonderful SEP or Lumen Christi, Lalemant, or whether you are using settings of the MR texts, you are doing the "third option". If you are singing vernacular Propers you are, strictly speaking, not doing the "first option" or "second option" because you are not actually using the GR or GS.

    5. So, if we are doing the "third option" (because, for example, in our parish context, we need to be using vernacular propers), should we have a preference for what text we use in the vernacular?

    (a) For USA/E&W "third option", the GIRM for the Entrance Chant states that the text needs to be approved by the Conference of Bishops in E&W/USA (and similar although not identical language for the Communion).

    The MR texts for the English translation of the Missal have been approved by the relevant Conferences of Bishops, so this gets a tick.

    In the USA, I know that the beautiful Lumen Christi Missal and beautiful Jogues Missal have been approved by the USCCB, for example, so clearly the texts therein have approval in the USA. (Other territories...?)

    (b) So if both vernacular MR and GR texts have been approved, which is better to use? Neither is given preference under the "letter of the law" because both meet the requirement in GIRM for the "third option".

    Turning then to the "spirit of the law", I can definitely see the argument that one may have a preference for the translation of the GR text. Definitely. But, to be clear, we're talking "spirit of the law" stuff here, not "letter of the law", and as such it is perfectly reasonable to consider other factors when making this decision. I think we have to exercise our judgment on this as best we can in whatever situation we find ourselves in - I do not think there is a "one size fits all right answer" on this (which is why its splendid there's so many iterations of English Proper settings out there now).

    For example, here in E&W, the official publisher of the new translation Missal (the CTS) has done a fine job, and the Missals we have are lovely (English/Latin side by side, pictures, etc). Lots of people own copies of these Missals. Also, many parishes provide missalettes. All of these obviously use the MR texts.

    I think it is highly desirable that the congregation / clergy can see: "hang on a minute, we / the choir is singing this text I can see in front of me in the Missal - this thing described as an "Entrance Antiphon" ". That way people realise that what is being sung is not some arbitrary addition, but rather what is being sung is intrinsic to the Mass for that day. People can follow what is being sung and ponder it. It can "sink in" that actually it is a good thing to sing what is here in the "official book", rather than just singing something of our own choosing.

    The same effect is not achieved to quite the same degree if one sings a different text - if one sings something that is different to what is shown in the Missal.

    Clergy / parish committees also get confused and want you to sing the "right" antiphon (the one in the Missal). One could explain the GR/MR distinction, but what if you are having an uphill battle trying to get their buy-in to sing the Propers anyway? From experience, this is just one extra point to potentially trip over. Sometimes you have to pick your battles one at a time. **

    The situation is different if your parish happens to provide everyone with a copy of the Lumen Christi Missal, for example. There you would naturally use settings of the text found therein. But not everywhere will be like that.

    Most parishes these days are still enjoying a diet restricted to hymn sandwiches. Sure, good hymns have devotional value. Personally, I think hymns are good, and may have a place at Mass. But the fact they dominate to the exclusion of everything else is a great pity. In my view, anything we can do to shift away from this over-dominance and towards singing the Propers (& compliance with GIRM) is an improvement. We should recognise the distinction between MR/GR texts, but as I say, I do not think we should get too caught up on this distinction - I think we need to recognise that there is a not a "one size fits all right answer".


    ---

    * For example, the Liturgy Office in England & Wales and subsequently the USCCB were happy to "clear" my own attempt at setting of the Ent/Com MR antiphons. I only received encouragement from both authorities. Neither said to me; "Peter, you wally, the MR Ent and Com antiphons are only meant to be said, not sung."

    ** Hence, for my own attempt at this, I went with the MR texts because I wanted what I was producing to have as few "entrance barriers" as possible (e.g. used modern notation, simple tones that get repeated a lot, seasonal psalm verses rather than psalm verses changing each Sunday, some attempt at an organ accompaniment / parts if that's what you want/need etc).
  • I have thought and experienced very much the same as PeterJ, especially regarding his 5b and his points about arguing for Propers when they are not the texts in the missal. In Canada the alternate to the GR would be only "another suitable chant" with an approved text: in practice this is ignored and a song is sung from some book. Although we do have an approved book (CBW) whose texts are presumably approved: and from it there are for every Sunday "officially recommended" songs.

    The Lumen Christi missal is unfortunately not suitable for use in Canada (nor, surely, in England?) since its lectionary, including the responsorial psalm, are not approved for use.
    Thanked by 2PeterJ CHGiffen
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I will also add that I once made a stink about what PeterJ discusses in his point 2 - and was largely ridiculed.

    Does the GIRM mean that the first option (or in the case of the Gradual replacing the Responsorial Psalm, another option) really mean that option is only truly fulfilled by the Latin words and music as found in the Graduale Romanum? I believe it does.

    From the very detailed attention we give to the GIRM when we use it to support our causes, I think we have to be honest with ourselves and say that upon a similar view of scrutiny that is indeed what it is saying - and vernacular translations and melodic adaptations are really not "first option" choices.

    I'm not arguing that such translations or adaptations are bad, and yes, they're the only way forward in most places. I also admit that the Graduale in Latin is a stretch for 99.9% of parishes. I'm just pointing out some disingenuousness among us in reading the GIRM with such scrutiny (i.e., ordering the options by preference, etc.), but then ignoring language which seems quite plain, in order to advance our cause, nevertheless a cause which is quite worthy.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I have never read GIRM to mean you must do option one, then option two if you can't do one, then option three if one and two are impossible, and option four as the last resort if you can't do any of the first three. I know some want to read it that way, but I view it as stating there are four valid options and you can decide which best fits your situation and circumstances. Let the anathemas and chapel doilies fly. LOL.
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    Ignoto, I don't think Bugnini's commentary is dealing clearly with the distinction which the GIRM and the Apostolic Constitution make.

    The following early documents are at:
    http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/girmall.htm

    Pope Paul VI's apostolic constitution Missale Romanum (1969) seems to be saying: for sung Masses, the antiphon in the Graduale Romanum is used; for spoken Masses, the antiphon, possibly revised, in the Missal is used.



    I question the "distinction" idea, because the phrase "entrance and communion antiphons have been revised for use in Masses that are not sung" might mean that the entrance and communion antiphons have been translated into the vernacular so they can be spoken in the vernacular when they are not sung.

    After all, the distinction between forms of Masses is "no longer to depend on the presence or absence of singing." On page 116, Bugnini says:
    The basic distinction between the forms of celebration was no longer to depend on the presence or absence of singing but on the participation of the faithful. The only distinction now was to be between Mass with a congregation and Mass without a congregation.


    I think it is also interesting that on the EWTN page that Chonak cited, it says "Roman Gradual" (Missal):

    VI. Appendix To The General Instruction For The Dioceses Of The United States

    [The adaptations contained in this American Appendix are those approved by the Holy See.]

    . . .

    26. Entrance Song

    As a further alternative to the singing of the entrance antiphon and psalm of the "Roman Gradual" (Missal) or of the "Simple Gradual," the Conference of Bishops has approved the use of other collections of psalms and antiphons in English, as supplements to the "Simple Gradual," including psalms arranged in responsorial form, metrical and similar versions of psalms, provided they are used in accordance with the principles of the "Simple Gradual" and are selected in harmony with the liturgical season, feast or occasion (decree confirmed by the Consilium for the Implementation of the Constitution on the Liturgy, December 17, 1968).


  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    As Jeff Ostrowski points out in the article I linked above: "...it’s not forbidden to sing the Missal text. Liturgical law has allowed this since 1970, and no one disputes this." *


    Peter, thanks for mentioning this! I'm glad that JO has clarified that there is no dispute about the legitimacy of singing the Missal text, because his sentence in his Preface to the V2H seemed to indicate that only antiphons from the Roman Gradual may be sung (i.e. "When the Mass Propers are spoken in the Ordinary Form, they are taken from the Roman Missal, but when sung, they are taken from the Roman Gradual").

    I appreciate the clarification and the acknowledgement that is it not forbidden to sing the Missal text!
    Thanked by 2PeterJ CharlesW
  • Andrew Malton - yes, it would be wonderful to use the LCM or JM in England but, as you say, we would not be able to, just you would not be able to use it in Canada. Sigh. (Incidentally, I suspect the example towards the end of my earlier post where I refer the LCM is not terribly apt as, I believe Adam Bartlett has very wisely included both GR and MR texts and that book. But that is by-the-by.)

    SkirpR - glad to hear you agree! Yes, if one wants to get into debating the rule book, I really think that is the best interpretation of what the GIRM is saying, so I'm with you all the way. But even if one thinks that bit of the GIRM is confining itself just to rules about the *text* of the chant (I don't think it is, but I can see how one could read it that way) I think one runs into the problem of point (3) set out in my post... i.e. the GR is in Latin.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Ignoto: Paul VI can't have been speaking of translation in 1969, because it hadn't been done. Moreover, when the documents spoke about translation, they didn't use words like "adapt". They spoke about "translation into vernacular languages".
  • ... but I view it as stating there are four valid options and you can decide which best fits your situation and circumstances.

    I agree that this is how the list of options is generally applied in practise: choosing among equivalent alternatives according to a parallel selection process.

    However, I strongly believe that there's a hierarchy in the presented options. If the three (for the USA: four) options would be equally suited, this would be in contradiction to Sacrosanctum concilium 116, which states that Gregorian chant has pride of place. That's exactly what the order of options in the GIRM affirms: Gregorian chant from the Graduale Romanum is named as the first option. In accord with SC 117, the Graduale simplex is mentioned as second option, as this is a collection of authentic Gregorian chants for use in small churches where 'a correct rendition of the more complex chants of the Graduale Romanum would prove difficult' (cf. Introduction to the Graduale simplex, no. 1).

    When SC 116 states that Gregorian chant should be given pride of place in liturgical services, it adds 'other things being equal'. This doesn't mean that the given options are by themselves all of equal value. When the expression 'other things being equal' was introduced to the fifth draft of SC (thus referring to the 1958 Instruction De musica sacra 16), it came with a clarification that this was done to take into account any practical obstacles that might prevail, preventing a choir or schola to perform the Gregorian chants well.

    So, a serial selection process is implied: choosing between options from a hierarchical ordered list.
    Thanked by 2PeterJ CHGiffen
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    At least it's fair to say that the fourth US option is ranked below the others. It is broad enough to include them all, so if it were ranked equally, the other three would have been redundant.
  • I think it's both. I think they are presented in the order of ideal, but not necessarily "only do 2 if you can't do 1, etc."
    Thanked by 1PeterJ
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    Ignoto: Paul VI can't have been speaking of translation in 1969, because it hadn't been done. Moreover, when the documents spoke about translation, they didn't use words like "adapt". They spoke about "translation into vernacular languages".


    I probably should have said instead: "I question the 'distinction' idea, because the phrase you quote ("entrance and communion antiphons have been revised for use in Masses that are not sung") might mean that the entrance and communion antiphons have been translated into revised for the vernacular so they can be spoken in the vernacular when they are not sung."

    But that was conjecture on my part, and I think it is best to stick to the documents. To that end, I think it is worth mentioning that the BCL Newsletter v. 6, no. 2-3 quotes a 10/20/1969 instruction from the CDW.

    As you say, in 1969 the translation "hadn't been done," but this information from 1969 seems to indicate that work certainly was in progress:

    1. Entrance song.
    If there is no singing (i.e., no psalm, hymn, or other sacred song), the antiphon in the missal is recited. Until the publication of the complete new missal, the antiphon alone from the present missal (i.e., without psalm verse, Gloria Patri, or repetition of the antiphon) is said in such cases.


    Additionally, the BCL Newsletter from Sept. 1965 (vol. 1, no. 1) cites Notitiae 2-7:

    Must the Conference of Bishops approve only the new melodies to the vernacular text sung by the celebrant and ministers or also the melodies which are sung by the people or by the schola? ...With regard to the melodies of the Ordinary or the Proper of the Mass, however, the norms remain unchanged: the individual Bishop, through the diocesan commission on sacred music, must be vigilant so that these melodies may be properly conformed to the rules and general legislation of the Church concerning music.


    I've always understood that the Proper of the Mass includes the antiphons.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Other factors are abilities and resources. If you are unable to do option 1, then move to the option you can accomplish.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    The Lumen Christi missal is unfortunately not suitable for use in Canada (nor, surely, in England?) since its lectionary, including the responsorial psalm, are not approved for use.


    True, but in reference to the singing of the Propers: The Lumen Christi Simple Gradual, which has a Choir edition (with Psalm verses) and Assembly edition (without), would provide what you might be looking for, along with a sung Order of Mass and 18 chanted Mass settings in English and Lain. The full LCM additionally provides lectionary readings, Psalm responses, Gospel Alleluias, and weekday antiphons. But the LCSG gives you what is needed to sing the processional propers and the ordinary of the Mass congregationally anywhere in the English-speaking world.
  • The GIRM says:

    "there are four options for the Entrance Chant: (1) the antiphon from the Missal or the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum, as set to music there or in another setting;" [emphasis added].

    The musical setting is clearly flexible: the text is what constitutes option 1. And technically, if we're talking hierarchy, the Missal is listed before the Graduale :)

    Now, I wouldn't try to read too much into the hierarchy. As a pragmatist, I merely try to show skeptics that the latin chants are a clear option in the GIRM. Whether a parish does those settings has less to do with the hierarchy of the paragraph and more to do with the priorities of the pastor/music director. I don't think you are going to convince anyone to do chant based on the order of this paragraph.

    There are some take-aways, though:

    1 - I don't see that you can make a case that option 1 is referring only to the Latin chants of the Graduale Romanum. It explicitly mentions other musical settings. This means that another musical setting of the antiphon is option 1, not option 3 or 4.

    2 - the Missal antiphon is listed as one option for the entrance chant. Which means that the Missal antiphon is an option to be sung (unless by "chant," the document means "that which is spoken". OK - I guess nobody is arguing that we shouldn't sing the Missal antiphons. But the GIRM, to me, says that a musical setting of the Missal antiphon is just as legitimate as the Graduale chant.

    3 - Given that English antiphons are equally part of option 1, and that the GIRM refers simply to the "antiphon", it seems to me that an English translation of the Graduale antiphon is equally part of option 1. ESPECIALLY when, as often happens, the Missal antiphon is the same as the Graduale.

    From all of the above, I have the following (again, pragmatic) conclusion: The best option for the processional chants, in the mind of the Church, is an antiphon interspersed with psalm verses. The best sources for the antiphons are the Missal and Graduale and (my inference) vernacular translations of the Graduale. Another source is the Simplex. Another source is simply a collection of psalms, which may or may not be tied to the day. Finally, it is also ok to do something besides an antiphon with psalm verses, if it has been approved by the bishops.

    We can argue about where the Graduale itself falls in a hierarchy, but I just think the church is too purposefully vague about this for such discussion to be fruitful. I think the best path forward at this point is to focus on the most basic level: composing/collecting singable collections of antiphons and psalm verses based on the sources outlined above.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Adam Wood writes:
    the LCSG gives you what is needed to sing the processional propers and the ordinary of the Mass congregationally anywhere in the English-speaking world.
    Is that right, Adam? The book has approval here in the US; wouldn't the episcopal conference of some other country need to approve it to make it suitable for use there?
  • JaredOsterman - thank you for your post, and I agree with the conclusion set out in your final sentence. I hadn't realised that the GIRM for the USA actually stated the Roman Missal antiphon under option (1)... or had those other significant wording differences. Interesting to contrast this with the GIRM for England and Wales (which I quoted above).
    http://www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/GIRM/Documents/GIRM.pdf
  • I would submit:

    1. Order precedence indicates, at least, pride of place. Make of that what you will.

    2. The universal option 1 is the GR, period. The US adaptation adds the Missal antiphons and allows for any setting, which aren't even options in the universal GIRM.

    3. When the GIRM speaks of a text, it means the text in Latin or official translations. E.g., when the GIRM speaks of "the readings," it means not only the ones in the Latin Lectionary but also the official translation of the jurisdiction. Furthermore, the melodies may differ without it being a different beast. Polyphonic propers are still option 1. Therefore, if there were an official translation of the GR, it would certainly be US option 1 and possibly even universal option 1.

    4. There is no official translation of the GR. There are translations permitted for use, but I would argue that these are approved as option 3 or 4. The adapted GIRM makes no mention of an approval process for option 1 as it does for options 3 and 4. That would indicate that no such process was contemplated because only official texts were intended as a first option.

    5. The Missal antiphons were intended to be recited, not sung and many of us think a separate set of propers was ill-advised to begin with. However, the USCCB's notorious confusion on the matter resulted in the Missal antiphons being ratified as a sung option and I don't think it should be dismissed as an error anymore now that it actually reflects the mind of the bishops.

    6. Thinking with the Church, both universal and in the US, where the Missal and GR agree, the Missal text should be sung.

    8. Where Missal and GR disagree, I would argue that it's better to approximate universal option 1 through US option 3/4, i.e., sing an unofficial English GR, than it is to stick to US option 1 and sing the Missal antiphons. Not only does that stay truer to the spirit of all that is holy but it may also influence future legislation in a more GR-friendly direction.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    the LCSG gives you what is needed to sing the processional propers and the ordinary of the Mass congregationally anywhere in the English-speaking world.


    Is that right, Adam? The book has approval here in the US; wouldn't the episcopal conference of some other country need to approve it to make it suitable for use there?


    I was saying: What you need is in there.

    Whether you are allowed to use it is a different question.

    We have a handful of communities outside of the U.S. using the LCSG. So I would have to say I guess it depends on your specific rules and level of scrupulosity in these matters.
  • The GIRM says:


    The GIRM (US Adaption) says...

    As a relative newbie to all this, could I please make a plea for precision, in talking about, the GIRM. The Irish GIRM is not even available online, so it is helpful to be made aware what version of the GIRM one is referring to lest someone stumble on these dicussions and think the GIRM (US) with its considerable differences is a universal rather than local document. And unlike most of our liturgical docs which we share with the UK, we don't share our GIRM (Irish) with anyone. (Sigh. Because we are such a huge well resourced church you know...)

    Thank you for reading.

    Stabling my hobby horse now..
  • Where did the idea come from that somehow US adaptations to the GIRM are somehow legislatively less legitimate than the universal GIRM?
    Thanked by 1Ignoto
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I might be mis-reading you, Andrew, but I think Bonnie is just saying that since this is a multi/inter-national forum we should make distinctions, for the sake of clarity, as to what version of the GIRM we're talking about, lest some newbie think that the US adaptation for GIRM 48-a : On Processional Fish Kites applies to the Whole Church as Universal Law. I think it's a distinction worth making.
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    :-Þ
  • Yes that was what I was trying to get at, sorry to confuse, Andrew, and thanks for your clarity, Salieri.
    Of course I was not trying to diss the GIRM (US ) as applicable where it is applicable, but it is not applicable where it is not applicable, and its application where it is inapplicable could lead one into inextricable difficulties, if you know what I mean.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • Sorry about my lack of clarity; I wasn't actually responding to your request for clarity, but at above posts that treat the US adaptations as if they aren't "real" law.
    Thanked by 1bonniebede
  • Well thank God we have all that straightened out.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    The distinction has been worthwhile at times for US Catholics as well. Occasionally, if there is some question about the meaning of some directive or permission in the adaptations, it can help to refer to the unmodified GIRM for clarification.
  • Sure, if there were some kind of seemingly contradictory direction.
  • I note that the English language version of the girm on the vatican website is the American, they really should have all the English language variants available,
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I note that the English language version of the girm on the vatican website is the American, they really should have all the English language variants available.


    I agree. As an American, I would love to see the others.

    Also, I understand it should be available to everyone, but perhaps those who are looking for one for their country could just photocopy it out of the Missal at their parish. I'm not sure doing so would be completely legal, but for study purposes, and with no other way of finding it, I would have little moral qualms about doing so myself.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    The Scottish edition includes adaptations for England and Wales, and for Australia.

    Here's the Kiwi edition: http://www.catholic.org.nz/_uploads/projects/109-c9f2b42f/user-assets/files/NLO/Roman MIssal/GIRM/NZ GIRM Final.pdf

    And the Canadian edition: http://www.peterboroughdiocese.org/newmissal/girm.pdf


  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    For context, it might be helpful to note the notional Catholic population of countries where English is the primary language or a historically important secondary language, rounded to the nearest million from Wikipedia "data" fwiw:

    USA: 75MM
    Nigeria: 24MM
    India: 19MM
    Uganda: 15MM
    Tanzania 12MM
    Kenya 10MM
    other Commonwealth countries omitted except as noted below....
    Canada 7MM (excludes the Quebecois...)
    Australia 6MM
    UK 6MM
    Ireland 4MM
    S Africa 3MM
    NZ <1/2M
  • Fr. Columba Kelly's collection also uses texts from the English MR.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Thanks for the figures, Liam.

    A priest and seminary instructor from Nigeria came to the Colloquium this year. He was wondering how he could economically get copies of the Parish Book of Chant over there, and Janet and I were happy to inform him that, under the Creative Commons license, he could take the PDF from our site, find a book printer, and start printing, with no other permissions or royalties required.
    Thanked by 1bonniebede