Need Requiem advice as fast as possible!
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    Sorry, this is going to be long...
    I am trying to help someone half way across the country, because I won't be able to get there until early morning, day of a funeral.
    It will be Extraordinary Form.
    The parish was able to find a priest to say it and a cantor who knows the propers.
    A family member who knows even less than I asked me to make some kind of program so people wouldn't get "lost" although there will be a few older people there who remember the responses, etc.
    I am trying to get this done before 3:30 pm Eastern time today, Friday.
    I am someone who can't sit in the front row for a even REGULAR EF Mass because I need someone else to cue me for kneeling, etc. so I'm not sure of certain things, any corrections, suggestions, answers GRATEFULLY accepted.
    I'm including words and translations for everything on pg 86 - 87 of the PBC, because plenty of people will sing the Ordinary.
    1. In the PBC on pgs. 86-7, the In Paradisum is included, so is that done at the church, rather than the "burial service" the way an old kyriale I own has it?
    2. Are the people expected to do the Latin responses translated in a Missal I have as "And let perpetual light... Amen.... Amen," and if so sung or spoken, and would that come before or after the In Paradisum?
    I figure the translations of the Lesson and Gospel are unnecessary as they will be repeated in English, if not proclaimed in English in the first place the way Summorum Pontificum allows, and the Canon is identical to current EP I, right?
    And the
    3. Do the people sing "Sed libera nos..." for the Pater Noster?
    4. If you were completely new to this would translations of the collects, post-communion, etc. help, or just be unnecessary clutter on the page?
    5.Are there places in the following order I should insert "Amens" or "Et cum spiritu tuos"?

    Introit (w/ text)
    Kyrie (w/ text)
    Epistle (just title)
    Gradual (w/ text)
    Tract (w/ text)
    Sequence (w/ text)
    Gospel (just title)
    Homily (just title)
    Offertory (w/ text)
    Sanctus (w/ text)
    Canon (just title)
    Pater Noster ?
    Agnus Die (w/ text)
    Communio (w/ text)
    Requiescat... (w/ text)
    In Paradisum/Chorus Angelorum (w/ text)

    Also, is there any context in which the St Michael prayer from the old low Mass would be used at a funeral? Or is that better done at the wake?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    I'm including words and translations for everything on pg 86 - 87 of the PBC, because plenty of people will sing the Ordinary.
    1. In the PBC on pgs. 86-7, the In Paradisum is included, so is that done at the church, rather than the "burial service" the way an old kyriale I own has it?

    AT CHURCH

    2. Are the people expected to do the Latin responses translated in a Missal I have as "And let perpetual light... Amen.... Amen," and if so sung or spoken, and would that come before or after the In Paradisum?

    NO, PEOPLE WOULD NOT.

    3. Do the people sing "Sed libera nos..." for the Pater Noster?
    NO
    4. If you were completely new to this would translations of the collects, post-communion, etc. help, or just be unnecessary clutter on the page?
    CLUTTER
    5.Are there places in the following order I should insert "Amens" or "Et cum spiritu tuos"?

    NO.

    Introit (w/ text)
    Kyrie (w/ text)
    Epistle (just title)
    Gradual (w/ text)
    Tract (w/ text)
    Sequence (w/ text)
    Gospel (just title)
    Homily (just title)
    Offertory (w/ text)
    Sanctus (w/ text)
    Canon (just title)
    Pater Noster ?
    Agnus Die (w/ text)
    Communio (w/ text)
    Requiescat... (w/ text)
    In Paradisum/Chorus Angelorum (w/ text)

    I HAVE WRITTEN IN CAPS to make it clear where the answers were. The people have nothing to sing or say in the EF of Mass....in the old form. I hear of some TLM congregations that do responses, which surprises me.

    Everything I have answered is a guess based upon what we did back in the 1950's. I played lots of requiems, but rarely with...a body....so I am not sure about the St. Michael prayer. Hope this helps.
  • David Sullivan
    Posts: 355
    My two cents. Based on your comment about a cantor who knows the propers, I'm guessing you are dealing with a Missa Cantata, not low Mass.
    The congregation may sing the responses, but aren't required, nor expected to do so. You don't need to bother to put them in the program. The cantor and/or schola will need to sing them.

    In Paradisum is very often sung as the recessional in church, especially if the burial service doesn't follow immediately. I think it is technically part of the burial service, slightly anticipated in church. Seeing it's the recessional, prayers/responses would come before In Paradisum.

    There are some differences between the TLM Canon and the ordinary form, most obviously, the memorial acclamation in the new. Both are given in the PBC, and of course the TLM Canon will be in the priest's Missal, which is what really matters.
    The congregation may (is not required or expected) sing 'sed libera nos a malo'.
    With a sung Mass, the St Michael prayer after low Mass is omitted.
    Don't forget the special Requiem words for the Agnus Dei: "Dona eis requiem" instead of "miserere nobis", then "Dona eis requiem sempiternam" instead of "dona nobis pacem" for the last instance.

    For future reference, Coalition for Ecclesia Dei, ecclesiadei.org, has a handy booklet missal for funerals, but their web site only has a form to order them by mail, not a file to download. Hope everything goes well.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I recently attended an All Souls EF Mass, so here's what I recall:

    2. Are the people expected to do the Latin responses translated in a Missal I have as "And let perpetual light... Amen.... Amen," and if so sung or spoken, and would that come before or after the In Paradisum?
    The people did speak the responses, I THINK. They may have been sung. You would be well advised to just put in the music and people can figure out that if the priest speaks they speak, if he sings, they sing.

    The "In Paradisum" was sung as the procession left the church; however this was All Souls with a catalfaque (spelled wrong, but you know what I mean)

    3. Do the people sing "Sed libera nos..." for the Pater Noster?
    Yes. I do recall this at the requiem.

    4. If you were completely new to this would translations of the collects, post-communion, etc. help, or just be unnecessary clutter on the page?
    I would include it BUUUUUUUT there exists a version of the "red book", referred to as the "gray book", which has the COMPLETE TEXT of the Funeral Mass. IF your parish has this, I would say don't bother with the program. If it does not, by all means include the lessons, collects, secret, postcommunion, etc. There will be many there who will not be EF regulars, and trust me THEY WILL NOT GO TO ANOTHER ONE if they have no idea what's being said. I swore it off for years because the first EF Mass I went to was the sit-down-shut-up-and-pray-your-rosary Low Mass.

    I would encourage you to emulate the format here: http://detroitlatinmass.org/jospht/p10268.pdf Or even go to http://detroitlatinmass.org/ and e-mail them, I believe they make their layout of the bulletin available to anyone who asks for an EF Mass, so they can send you their Word or whatever file.

    5:
    Introit (w/ text)
    Kyrie (w/ text)
    COLLECT (dom.vob., amen)
    Epistle (just title)
    Gradual (w/ text)
    Tract (w/ text)
    Sequence (w/ text)
    Gospel (just title) ------ (dom.vob., rest of the dialog)
    Homily (just title)
    (There MAY be a dom.vob. here, I don't remember)
    Offertory (w/ text)
    (PREFACE)
    Sanctus (w/ text)
    Canon (just title)
    (AMEN)
    Pater Noster ?
    Agnus Die (w/ text)
    (DOM. NON SUM)
    Communio (w/ text)
    Requiescat... (w/ text)
    In Paradisum/Chorus Angelorum (w/ text)

    That's what I remember.

    Although I must ask - is this a Low Mass or High Mass or Missa Cantata?? The EF Requiem I was at was a Solemn High Mass, which I understand is musically the same as a Missa Cantata. So my answers only apply to High Mass or Missa Cantata.

    What Noel describes is what was the popular American practice prior to the '60s. Beginning with Pope Pius, the goal of the Church was to include the congregation where prudent, leading not only to the "dialog Mass", but also the responses and ordinaries at High Mass. I think the sit-down-and-shut-up Mass is a relic, and CERTAINLY against Benedict's "hermeneutic of continuity", which favors ORGANIC developments, such as the "et cum spiritu"s. The tradition as developed is for the congregation to make those responses, so it would be best to include them and allow those who wish to strictly participate internally to do so.

    But more important than my opinion, or Noel's more valuable opinion, is the parish custom. CONTACT THE PRIEST. Ask him if the congregation typically makes those responses. It really does vary from parish to parish, and you're best off not offending someone by inclusion or exclusion of something. And again I repeat: GO TO THE DETROIT WEBSITE! That should get you on the right track!
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    Thanks, all.
    I may look into getting some booklets for future reference, and thanks for the Detroit link.
    I recently attended an EF All Souls as well, very well done, but I dind't want to trust to my recollections, I was hoping someone.
    Asking the priest or parish, is of course what I would have done, but it is not possible.
    They don't do the EF, there is no "parish custom," they are making an enormous effort on behalf of people who do not belong to the parish, because it was the deceased's wishes, but there is no one "on the ground" there and time is short.
    I'm bringing a borrowed black velvet pall with gold bullion fringe in my carry-on and am prepared to do a lot of 'splaining, (as well as risk arriving with no change of clothes, since I figure the programs and pall are more important than my stuff.)
    If anyone gets into town in time, I know there is an Institute of Christ the King outpost within driving distance.
    I'll post more about it when the week is over, because I think this may be of interest to people.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Noel:

    This may help you
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Other people in the diocese could perhaps tell you their practices. Or is the diocese totally devoid of EF Masses? I don't know WHAT I'd do with a congregation that may be totally unprepared... maybe print the responses anyway, and if people make them, great, if not, that's what servers are for!

    Although the circumstances are of course unfortunate, it's great to hear of the EF spreading and being used for a real funeral.
  • WGS
    Posts: 297
    Be ready for the "Amen" response after "Requiescant in pace" at the end of the Mass. -- not the "Deo gratias" you'd be expecting after an "Ite missa est."

    The rubrics call for the Ferial set of responses during the Mass rather than the Solemn Tone. However, it's likely you'll get what the celebrant gives you.

    It's also likely you'll not get much support with responses from the congregation. Usually there will be quite a few non-regular Catholics plus non-Catholics plus mostly N.O. Catholics. You'll need to just assert yourself and not expect any help or support for the responses.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Jeff - MOST COOL!
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