ClemensRomanus, would you be willing to share your work with me?

I've already begun working on this (and I can send or post what I have so far if you’re willing to give feedback)

I like the 1964 in that the English is fairly modern without being horrible.

I privately pray the monastic form of the office, though not consistently as a result I am very tempted to go in that direction, but it is nearly identical with the Roman anyway ( 2 different antiphons and minus the 5th psalm and plus a short responsorial).

I'm not familiar with the 1964 English-language book. Is the book/text available readily?

For a public liturgical service, especially one replacing Mass on the schedule, I would strongly discourage you from using something non-liturgical, ESPECIALLY if you are calling it vespers to the public.

Is the old rite easier? Yes. Does that mean we should make up our own service? No!

If you want to use the old rite, do it completely, in Latin.

@Kathy, could you give an example of such a program, please?

In general, it's valuable to follow standard form, to set an example and spread the sense of Catholic unity.

Be aware that some features in office books are optional: there is a General Instruction for the LOTH as there is for Mass. If I remember right, the verbose "psalm prayers" are not in the Latin LOTH and are optional. All the Benedictine houses I know omit them, and it's best to do so.

@Kathy - ah, okay! I hadn't understood what you meant... (not at my brightest today).

@chonak - the psalm prayers are not even included in the "Divine Office", the translation approved for use in Ireland, UK, Australia etc. They are definitely optional.

This whole discussion reminds me of The Captain.

In my Catholic grammar school, the upper grades (6, 7, 8) were taught Math by a retired naval captain whom everybody called Cap. He was tall, had a very deep voice, and was an Episcopalian. He thought our liturgical experiments were ridiculous (it was the 70s).

One time we started this thing called "paraliturgies." It was sort of like a liturgy of the Word without Mass. Cap said that etymologically, para-chute meant to keep from--falling. So para-liturgy was something you did to keep from--having liturgy.

Ok, I’m going to give a bit more background, as I think it would be helpful.
We have a new Bishop (Rochester NY) and ‘Lifeteen’ is no longer an approved youth program. Previously it was the youth program, and in this context sporadic life teen Masses were celebrated on an irregular basis of about once or twice a month but sometimes not at all when school was in session, dependent upon availability and willingness of priests.
The new context needs a prayer element, so it’s not really a replacement of a time slot previously held by a Mass.

In the new context- once a month prayer/worship is going to be incorporated into the youth program. The youth director is asking that the Gregorian chant schola which I direct be incorporated for this purpose and that it be sometimes Eucharistic adoration/benediction and sometimes vespers. He is aware of the LOTH vs. EF in English situation.

A number of other things have been suggested, including Anglican use evensong, I had originally suggested Compline. If the youth director was not traditional and a convert from “high” Lutheranism they would likely be doing “praise and worship” .

I myself am fortunate to live 1 mile from a Benedictine Monastery. At my suggestion, the plan for introducing the youth to this is for them to attend vespers there, the first month that the youth program starts up this fall.

Noel Jones, You tempt me, oh you tempt me. It was suggested, I felt that it was liturgically foreign to us as 'Romans’. The door is still somewhat open.

The excessively legalistic will still say of course that it isn’t canonically evening prayer for us, as if any of the laity and kids involved had canonical obligations.

One more version to consider: the current UK Divine Office has the same structure as the current US LOTH, and uses the same 1963 Grail Psalms, but where the US LOTH has collects, antiphons, and intercessions translated by 1970s ICEL, the UK edition has its own English translation.

For example, here's a collect from Thursday Morning Prayer, Week 2:

Latin LOTH: Te lucem veram et lucis auctorem, Domine, deprecamur, ut, quae sancta sunt, fideliter meditantes, in tua iugiter claritate vivamus. Per Dominum...

ICEL: Lord, true light and source of all light, listen to our morning prayer. Turn our thoughts to what is holy and may we ever live in the light of your love. We ask this....

UK: Lord God, true Light and Creator of light, grant that faithfully pondering on all that is holy, we may ever live in the splendour of your presence. We make our prayer....
---

I can't answer on Kathy's behalf, but there is a good Compline book from Ignatius by Fr. Samuel Weber with facing Latin and English pages, and chant notation, so you can sing Compline fully in English. The Psalms in English use Fr. Weber's psalm tones, with Gregorian tones for the Latin.

Congratulations on Bishop Matano's arrival. I had the pleasure of seeing him offer Mass at the cathedral in Providence a few weeks ago, as part of their 125th anniversary. It was the first EF Mass in the beautiful Cathedral of SS. Peter and Paul in a generation.

---

A friend of mine who went to college in Rochester has told me of how the chaplaincy at his school occasionally organized a trip for students to go to the Trappist Abbey of the Genesee and attend their Night Office, around 2:30 a.m. or something like that. It might be something fun for your youth group too: to make the trip, attend the Office, and afterward go off at 4 a.m. to some all-night breakfast place, and then get back home.

Thank you Salieri and chonak, Bishop Matano is a breath of fresh air here. I had the pleasure of meeting him last Friday on the feast of St. Benedict.

-

Have you thought about doing Solemn Compline with Benediction?

1. Entrance Procession
2. Exposition (O Salutaris or another eucharistic hymn)
3. Opening Versacle
4. Hymn
5. Psalm(s) - Chant to Tone IId - it's the easiest one
- there are 2 Psalms on Saturday Night and only 1 on Sunday night
6. Scripture Reading
6. a. Homily (Not usual for Compline, but it can be done)
7. Responsory
8. Nunc Dimittis
9. Hymns of Adoration (Adoro Te/Godhead here in Hiding, Pange Lingua)
10. Tantum Ergo
11. Benediction
12. Divine Praises
13. Dismissal
14. Marian Antiphon
15. Exit

I did this each night at a Conference/Retreat and it went down well. It goes for just under an hour.

Objectors may say that UK LOTH is not approved for use in the US;

I'm not suggesting using uk version in Us, simply that the uk version seems not to have added extras which can't be obligatory as they are not in the original Latin Editio typica.
Maybe they were intended to make the LOTH more accessible or prayerful, not sure it helped from the comments I've seen, and in its basics LOTH is fairly simple really.

I'm a bit baffled by the "Wow, the Liturgy of the Hours is so complicated" theme here. It can be a bit complicated (just like the old office) if you need to figure out what antiphon to use for an optional memorial during Lent, but just to do Sunday Vespers? It's really pretty simple. The first psalm (110) and the canticle are the same every week; only the second psalm changes. You can use the same hymn every week. You don't need to use the "psalm prayers" (I never use them, and I suspect they'll disappear in the new translation of the office). In fact, except for the second psalm and the Magnificat antiphon, the people's parts would be pretty much identical from week to week. If you don't want to use the LOH for whatever reason, fine. But claims to its complexity for Sunday Vespers strains credulity.

If I remember correctly, in '62, with the permission of the Bishop, priests could fulfill their obligation to celebrate the Office by reciting an English translation. We occasionally have English Vespers or Tenebrae in the Old Rite at our Parish, and the priests simply get permission from the Bishop so that the English recitation would fulfill their obligation. I also know a priest who had for a while blanket permission to fulfill his obligation by reciting the Old Office in English.

I would suggest talking to your bishop. There might be some sort of dispensation or allowance he could give for the Old Rite Vespers to be done in English and still be canonical, especially considering your situation and Bishop!

BGP,

(Ok., so I'm really late to this shindig, but humor me a second)....

You said that you were to prepare Teen Vespers to replace a Life Teen Mass.

This prompted several questions, the answers to which should help solve your puzzle.

1) By "replace", do you mean that these children will attend Vespers instead of Mass? In this case, you can't do what's proposed, because you'll be contributing to the commission of a mortal sin: all these teens will miss Mass on Sunday.

2) By "replace", do you mean "keep the same style"? If this is the case, most of what has been proposed here won't work -- because Life Teen Masses disregard all the laws of authentic liturgy.

3) By "replace", do you mean that the pastor wants to be rid of the Life Teen Mass, but thinks people need a step down so they can rejoin the Catholic world? If this is the case, I think you want to use simple, chanted antiphons and either psalm-tone or recto tono verses.

4) Why is there an insistence on English?


5) Perhaps the pastor is in the grips of a bear who thinks that the only way to get teens to the church building is to cater to them with teen-themed events. If this is the case, ask father to sit in the confessional, after he has placed Our Lord in the monstrance: he'll do more good that way.

Chris G-Z,

Formerly the youth program included an occasional (not consistantly scheduled but intended to be monthly) 'Life teen' Mass on Sunday evening.

The reformed youth program will have a variety of prayer elements, such as adoration and this Vespers.