The best of the hymnal
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    What's the best basic core hymns? Feel free to add your own or challenge others' suggestions.

    But if you challenge, say why.

    And if you disagree with a challenger, say why.

    Do not mention a text writer or composer except to identify a text or tune, i.e. St. Thomas (Williams.) Do not say, "I like everything Christopher Idle ever wrote"
    --tempting as that admittedly is to say.

    No "why are you being so mean to my favorite hymn?" allowed.

    Say what you think, think about what you say, and explain what you think.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    My absolute favorite tune is an obscure tune known as CROOKED BOWTIE.
    Thanked by 3francis Gavin CharlesW
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    There's also NEW CROOKED BOWTIE, Irregular.
    Thanked by 2Gavin Ben
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    I was trying to avoid the obvious answers. That is everyone's favorite tune, obviously. ..
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    THAXTED (Holst) hands down, whether to "O God beyond all praising" or "Three Days." Sorry, Adam, I haven't had occasion to explore you Ascension text yet.
    *The very best of British concentration, gravity and ascendancy. First phrase statement is powerful and concise. It's reiteration is then amplified and modified in the second. The third is a sort of retreat or pullback of intensity that then leads to the fourth motive of that amazing descending scale that almost seems like a credo in music. Then, of course the final restatement of the original phrase (like A3) with a true exclamation point.
    It, among the Brittanic greats, stands above even KINGSFOLD, JERUSALEM, ABBOTS LEIGH and certainly the quirky SALVE FESTE DIES.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    "I like everything Christopher Idle ever wrote"

    What about Eric Idle?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Christopher Idle wrote Eric Idle? ;)
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Well, I guess I shoulda checked to make sure I copied t'whole sentence... I think I may need to up my morning caffeine intake.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Seriously though, I love THAXTED, with "O God beyond all praising." My absolute favorite.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Why, young Ben?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    It's just good music. Period. You could set a laundry list to THAXTED and people would sing it.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I don't even know where to start. I probably have 100 hymns I consider essential, and another 50 or so I'd be sad about not being in a hymnal.

    Here's a few I DID NOT EVER hear growing up, and only discovered once I worked for Episcopalians, but which I now consider absolutely essentially...

    Humbly I adore Thee
    Take Up Thy Cross
    Come Risen Lord and Deign to be our Guest
    Come Down O Love Divine
    To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King
    O Bless the Lord, My Soul

    I only mention those in particular because I didn't grow up with them, and now I can't imagine why or how that was allowed to happen. I mean really, did I really NEED "Gift of Finest Wheat" every other Sunday for years?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    One of my absolute favourites is O Praise ye, the Lord (LAUDATE DOMINUM). The last phrase is especially effective.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbA8prdCKOc
    Thanked by 2CharlesW JulieColl
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Why, young Ben?


    The tune is so majestic and regal, and the text is such a beautiful. Some hymns run the risk of sounding trite, both in melody and text. This hymn is neither, with a dignified text and tune.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    THAXTED. Overrated, overplayed, a "catchy" hymn, however (latest fad in hymnody). Pentatonic melody (boring), very repetitious in its musical phraseology. Reminds me of For All The Saints and Hail Thee Festival Day.

    Favorite for me? All of the hymns in the PBC. They are Gregorian in nature (melodically), non metrical for the most part, are in Latin. All appropriate to the Roman Rite, especially the TLM.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    THAXTED is over-used, especially by trad Catholics. And I don't think it holds up well to over-use.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I have to now re-evaluate my position when I find myself agreeing with Francis!

    SINE NOMINE is another that some people beat to death. I use it once a year. No more.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Gavin:

    ...a certain branch of trads.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Don't forget "O Merciful Redeemer" to the tune of THAXTED. Text here.

    My core list of favorite hymns changes all the time. My current favorites:

    WAS LEBET (Father all loving who rulest in majesty)
    LOVE UNKNOWN (My song is love unknown)
    WIE SCHON LUECHTET (How bright appears the morning star)
    LAUDA ANIMA (Praise my soul, the King of Heaven)
    CAELITES PLAUDANT (Christ the fair glory)
    WINCHESTER OLD (Where charity and love prevail)
    DUMFERNLINE (Maker of earth, to Thee alone)
    FOREST GREEN (I sing the almighty power of God)
    DOWN AMPNEY (Come down, O Love divine with descant by CHGiffen!)

    Of course, I'm also very partial to anything by Ralph Vaughn Williams. Oops.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen G
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Both THAXTED and LAUDATE DOMINUM immediately establish a sense of scope by their use of a vast region of the scale. Somehow this imaginatively translates into a sense of the grandeur of God and of His sovereignty.
    image
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    ANOTHER text set to THAXTED? Why? Why are people writing texts in this meter? Why does EVERY new Catholic text have to be set to this tune? I wouldn't be shocked if some of these people sing "Happy Birthday" to the tune.

    Totally subjective, but I find something inherently secular about THAXTED. I can't put my finger on it.

    I wish we could sing it more - but only to "I vow to thee, my country". And not in church.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Why does EVERY new Catholic text have to be set to this tune?
    Aw, c'mon. Sometimes they use NETTLETON.
    Thanked by 2Gavin Adam Wood
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    THAXTED is not in our hymnal, so it only sees use as a choir anthem. SINE NOMINE has two sets of words in the hymnal specific to two major feasts during the year. It rarely get used more than two or three times a year.

    Trad Catholics? Don't they sing, "O God, I thank thee I am not like other men..." set to the hymn tune ANATHEMA? LOL.

    Thanked by 1francis
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    As long as I'm offering up adaptations of symphonic music, specifically tone poems, I'll add FINLANDIA (Sibelius) with the specific text of "Be still, my soul." Outside of any movement from the REQUIEM this hymn is my best choice for use at funerals or other memorials.

    *Simply and overall, the melodic phrase perfectly is wed to the text as if intended that way. (We know that Jean Sibelius was somewhat a morose personality already.) Just take the first phrase: the intake breath of the rest on beat one, "Be still"/descending half step....my soul/ascending to the fifth...."the Lord is on thy side"/where the return to the third scale degree by way of a slur up from 2, just marvelous and reflective of comfort.
    *The power of the three repeated, emphasized 5 in third phrase that also culminates in slurred cadence, driving home the imperative "LEAVE.TO.THY. GOD to order and pro-VIDE.
    *The deceptive cadence end of fourth phrase just sets "remain" outside of expectation of normalcy.
    *The final phrase ends with the understated tone of "hope" for a joyful end without fanfare.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    WIE SCHON LUECHTET is to me the perfect hymn tune. It modulates early and often. It has places of brightness and places of rest (which is true of THAXTED as well). The "queen of chorales" has a feminine nature and requires feminine rhymes.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Well, Kathy, I'm trying to play your ballgame by your rules, which I think were splendidly conceived and expressed. Don't understand why our colleagues overstate the obvious biases, and choose not to offer up what you asked for.
    The more things change, the more they stay the same.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I'm also kinda partial to "To Jesus Christ, our sovereign King". Especially like Calvert Shenk's harmonizatin in Adoremus Hymnal (first ed.) -- lotsa fun pedal work.
    Thanked by 2Gavin Gavin
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    melo

    I hate to be opinionated... (actually, I like my opinions...), but Finlandia is worse than Thaxted. In fact, all of Sibelius' music is a few notches below Mozart. Preeeeeeeeeeeedictable and gushy.

    Conjecture: It's hymns like this that brought in the sappy crap like OEW and the like.
    Thanked by 2Gavin Gavin
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I very much like "Praise, My Soul, the King of Heaven" sung to LAUDA ANIMA. It puts attention where I think it belongs, on God. We will never be able to praise Him enough or to the degree He deserves.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen JulieColl
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Charles C, if our colleagues are like me, they are trying to think of the reasons why they think FINLANDIA is a terrible hymn tune. No offense.

    The thing I like best is the way it starts, mi-re, on the upbeat, as you mention.

    The line endings of the odd lines--your "slurred cadence"--that is my most obvious distaste. One use of that figure might be ok in a stanza, but three? It becomes trite very quickly indeed to my ear.

    It also has an underlying marching beat that I find hard to reconcile with the sweeter elements of the tune. In any case, after long acquaintance, I have never succeeded in liking it.
    Thanked by 2melofluent CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Gavin:

    You are right! I was trying to put a finger on what bothers me about Finlandia and Thaxted and others like it. That is it! They have a patriotic air.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Take up thy cross, the Savior said,
    if thou wouldst my disciple be;
    deny thyself, the world forsake,
    and humbly follow after me.

    Take up thy cross, let not its weight
    fill thy weak spirit with alarm;
    his strength shall bear thy spirit up,
    and brace thy heart and nerve thine arm.

    Take up thy cross, nor heed the shame,
    nor let thy foolish pride rebel;
    thy Lord for thee the cross endured,
    to save thy soul from death and hell.

    Take up thy cross then in his strength,
    and calmly sin's wild deluge brave,
    'twill guide thee to a better home,
    it points to glory o'er the grave.

    Take up thy cross and follow Christ,
    nor think til death to lay it down;
    for only those who bear the cross
    may hope to wear the glorious crown.

    To thee, great Lord, the One in Three,
    all praise forevermore ascend:
    O grant us in our home to see
    the heavenly life that knows no end.
    -------------------------------------

    This is one of my favorite texts, and I prefer this original to the one I first learned in the 1982 (the version there is not BAD, it just isn't as good).

    The beauty of its poetry is amazing to me, both in its directness and in its conviction:
    -let not its weight fill thy weak spirit with alarm
    -sins's wild deluge
    -nor think til death to lay it down

    Another thing I really love about it...

    There is a theory of personality classification known as "Theological Worlds."

    This is not as weird as it sounds - it basically explains that different people view theology/religion/faith using one of a handful of primary metaphors. This is NOT an interpretation of theology, this is an interpretation of the different ways people think. (It's a ministry tool, not a theological tool.)

    The five "worlds" are:
    1. Separation and Reunion
    We are exiles, and Christ brings us home.

    2. Conflict and Vindication
    We are at war, and Christ is our victorious champion.

    3. Emptiness and Fulfilment
    We are broken, and Christ makes us whole.

    4. Condemnation and Forgiveness
    We are damned, and Christ redeems us.

    5. Suffering and Endurance
    We are in tribulation, and Christ is our strength.

    While all 5 are TRUE and essentially are describing the same thing, different people more closely identify with one or another primary understanding of salvation and the life of a Christian. (I'm a WORLD ONE guy, by the way; with some world two leanings.)

    Most hymns, prayers, sermons, etc focus on one or another of these understandings (the one held by the author), and it is rare to find all 5 expressed in a single text or work of art, especially something as short as a hymn.

    This text weaves all of them together to give a picture of the life of a disciple that is both compelling and complete, without feeling like it's jumping around to "cover all the bases."

    The following are some examples, though really I mean the text AS A WHOLE

    1. Separation and Reunion
    -'twill guide thee to a better home,
    -O grant us in our home to see

    2. Conflict and Vindication
    -and calmly sin's wild deluge brave,
    -it points to glory o'er the grave.
    -may hope to wear the glorious crown.

    3. Emptiness and Fulfilment
    -Take up thy cross and follow Christ,
    -nor heed the shame, / nor let thy foolish pride rebel;

    4. Condemnation and Forgiveness
    -to save thy soul from death and hell
    -the heavenly life that knows no end.


    5. Suffering and Endurance
    -his strength shall bear thy spirit up,/ and brace thy heart and nerve thine arm.
    -thy Lord for thee the cross endured, /to save thy soul from death and hell.
    -in his strength


    I have a hard time singing this text without getting choked up and overcome- both in joy at the grace I have been given through Christ, and at the thought of my own weakness in the face of the difficulty inherent to the life of one who has taken up the Cross. How often have I thought to lay it down? How often have I heeded the shame or been filled with alarm?

  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    BTW:

    Here is the original book about "Theological Worlds":
    Theological Worlds: Understanding the Alternative Rhythms of Christian Belief


    Here is a test, of sorts, that will help you identify which one you most identify with - though, you probably know already if you just think about it:
    http://hopenetworkministries.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Theological-Worlds-Inventory.pdf
    Thanked by 1G
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Conjecture: It's hymns like this that brought in the sappy crap like OEW and the like.

    That's okay, francis, we all have opinions. But your conjecture is just that. FINLANDIA is art music at its inception level. If you want to know where "sappy crap" in RCC music came from, look no further than Nicolai Montani and his St. Gregory Hymnal pieces composed or arranged by him. That and the plethora of Victorian era monastic hymnals (Mount St. Mary's for eg.)
    Thanked by 2Gavin Gavin
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Thanks, Adam. Those words are EXACTLY what I needed to hear today.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • SLANE
    LAUDA ANIMA
    HYFERDOL

    As I write this, my 5 year old is very pleasantly singing "the rattlin' bog", and I am also reviewing Requiem chants in my head for an upcoming mass, so it's terribly difficult for me to come up with any more.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Thanked by (2): Gavin, Gavin.

    How is Gavin thanking things twice?
    Thanked by 2Kathy Gavin
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Gavin has the power
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    melo

    Yea, those too.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Like Julie, Adam, and presumably others, it is nearly impossible to come up with a pared down list of just a few hymns (tunes &/or texts) that I can single out as the best. That said, I find the following 10 notable right now, although (except for a few that will never change for me) that list might well look different tomorrow, or next week, or next month, or next year.

    DOWN AMPNEY - Come Down, O Love Divne
    SALZBURG - At the Lamb's High Feast We Sing
    WIE SCHÖN LEUCHTET - How brightly beams the morning star
    RENDEZ A DIEU - Father, we thank thee who hast planted
    WACHET AUF RUFT UNS DIE STIMME - Wake, awake! the voice is calling
    DEUS TUORUM MILITUM (a.k.a. GRENOBLE) - O Love, how deep (and other texts)
    DIVINUM MYSTERIUM - Of the Father's love begotten
    CONDITOR ALME SIDERUM - Creator of the stars of night
    EISENACH - (several texts)
    WINCHESTER NEW - On Jordan's bank (and other texts)

    *******

    This is probably the wrong place to bring this up, but will you all please pray for my wife Patricia and her doctors? Patty has a renal cell carcinoma and so is having either part of or all of her right kidney removed one week from today (the day following our 10th anniversary) at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. We've been dealing with this situation for several weeks now, and she still has yet to have a procedure performed (probably ablation) for an adrenal adenoma that was also discovered. Patty has appreciated that I (re)composed my "O taste and see"/"Gustate et videte" in her honor for Mother's Day, although it has taken some time to prepare and post the new scores (I just posted the "Gustate" revision last night).

    *******

    Adam. Thank you for writing about "Take up thy cross" ... that is a text which is dear to me, too, although it rarely seems to be sung of late. It is especially meaningful at this time.

    Chuck
    Thanked by 2JulieColl G
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    That's because I REALLY hate Nicolai Montani.
    Thanked by 2Kathy CHGiffen
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Dearest Chuck,

    I'm so sorry to hear of this. You and Patricia are in my thoughts and prayers and included in my Divine Mercy chaplet right now. Our Lady of Czestochowa and St. Anthony, pray for us. (They have pulled us out of more scrapes than I can count.)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    One of my absolute favourites is O Praise ye, the Lord (LAUDATE DOMINUM). The last phrase is especially effective.


    Thanks for mentioning this. Of course, these wonderful old hymns have disappeared from our modern hymnals - should I be surprised?

    While the choir is on summer rehearsal schedule, I think this will be a good one to sing for a July Sunday. I got my copy at hymnary.org
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    PICARDY
    Thanked by 2francis Steve Q
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Trying not to duplicate

    WOODLANDS (Tell out, my soul)
    CWM RHONDDA (Guide me, O thou great Redeemer)
    ST CLEMENT (The day thou gavest)
    ST DENIO (Immortal, invisible)
    MICHAEL (All my hope on God is founded)
    GELOBT SEI GOTT (Good Christian men, rejoice and sing)
    THE THIRD TUNE (How fum'th in sight - and other texts)
    TALLIS' CANON (THE EIGHTH TUNE) (O thou immortal holy Light)
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen G
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    So odd for people to put the tune name first, and the text second....
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    I second all the tunes suggested by CHG and Salieri. In fact, I would offer the opinion that ALL hymn tunes composed more than 100 years ago which have been included in at least 90 percent of non-Catholic denominational hymnals published in the USA during the past 32 years (yes, I arbitrarily begin with Hymnal 1982) belong on the list of "the best."

    Why do I say "non-Catholic denominational hymnals." Because, by and large, it was non-Catholic Christians who sang these tunes into the popularity they enjoy today. Of course, many delightful "Catholic tunes" written before the time of the Reformation will be included on that list of "the best," such as the Piae Cantiones tunes.

    However, choosing the best texts for today: that, to me, is a far more difficult task.

    What about "new" tunes composed in the last 100 years (besides THAXTED and CROOKED BOWTIE)? Here are a few of my list of "the best." I won't supply the reasons for my choices as Kathy suggested (too much work), but I will if something is challenged.

    Only the passage of time will ultimately prove if these choices stand up:

    ABBOT'S LEIGH (Cyril Taylor)
    BICENTENNIAL (Robert Kreutz) - with the (Westendorf) text "Gift of Finest Wheat"
    BROTHER JAMES' AIR (Bain; first published 99 years ago)
    CHRISTIAN LOVE (Paul Benoit)
    CRUCIFER (Sydney Nicholson)
    DUNEDIN (Vernon Griffiths)
    EARTH AND ALL STARS (David Johnson)
    FORTUNATUS NEW (Carl Schalk)
    JULION (David Hurd)
    KING'S WESTON (Ralph Vaughan Williams)
    LOVE UNKNOWN (John Ireland)
    McKEE (Harry T. Burleigh)
    MERLE'S TUNE (Hal Hopson)
    MIGHTY SAVIOR (David Hurd)
    PURPOSE (Martin Shaw)
    RADIANT CITY (Thomas Pavlechko)
    RAQUEL (Skinner Chavez-Melo)
    SHANTI (Marty Haugen - yep, this is a very well written tune, IMO)
    SHARPTHORNE (Erik Routley)
    SIXTH NIGHT (Alfred Fedak)
    SURSUM CORDA (Alfred Smith)
    UNION SEMINARY (Harold Friedell)
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Adam Wood
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,465
    Charles, God be with you. I say a decade of Aves fir Patty.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Thinking of new tunes, if any of you have'nt seen Chuck's tune RASMUS (Let thy blood in mercy poured) look it up on CPDL. It's a gorgeous tune that I think everyone should know.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Fr. K -

    I am mostly in agreement with your list.

    Particularly, I'll mention that I'll also find SHANTI to be an excellent tune (since that will probably garner the most snickers from the crowd here), and I greatly prefer it to ST. BOTOLPH for "We Walk By Faith"
    (Caveat: I have bad taste.)

    I also personally just really like SURSUM CORDA.

    Do you actually like CHRISTIAN LOVE? I find it terribly boring. Anyone else feel that way, or is just me?

    Also, since we're talking about tunes -
    as an addendum to my above post about "Take Up Your Cross"
    (and I've said this before on this forum)
    While I am not in favor of the textual changes made by the 1982 to that hymn, I think the editors' choice of the Early American tune BOURBON is absolutely inspired. In most other hymnals it has been set to BRESLAU (a fine tune which I associate with Advent because of the 1906), and a few contemporary GIA hymnals set it to WALY WALY (which I like [i have bad taste] but its a little too relaxed for that text).
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Do you actually like CHRISTIAN LOVE? I find it terribly boring. Anyone else feel that way, or is just me?


    It's simpler than most, but I actually like it too. Also, WALY WALY isn't bad music, non liturgically, that is. I kinda like it too. Not sure I'd have it liturgically (though it's certainly not the worst you could do).