One Sunday per Month?
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Hello,all,

    Fr. at the school has asked me to bring the school children's choir to Sunday Mass once per month. There are several issues with this that are pending discussion, but I would like your take on things. First, since they've been asking me to basically do the Christmas Eve childrens choir for them for three years (not in my contract: I'm the music teacher at the school, not the parish music director; why he's not in charge of this I don't know), I suspect that they just want a group they can rely on to show up at Christmas Eve (ok in Dec, your once a month will be Christmas Eve, etc.). Second, I do have several issues with doing this, such as who will supervise the children at Mass? and who will choose the literature? and which Mass are you expecting them to sing? and when would rehearsals be? So much depends on the answers to these questions. If Fr. is expecting large enrollment, which I believe he is since I have about 30 in the school choir (which currently doesn't have any weekend obligations: I think that's one of the main reasons for the high enrollment figures), he's going to be disappointed, because we aren't going to get all 30 kids all at one Sunday Mass for various reasons.

    It's not that I don't want to do children's choir, because I do that at the church where I am the DM (not the same parish as the school: confusing I know). I do, however feel like I'm being asked to do a task because nobody else wants to, and moreso, because I have in the past refused for professional reasons (not in my contract, not part of school related duties, church already has a paid parish music director, etc.), I feel I'm now being manipulated into providing the service. Im not going to train a group of children and then just hand them over: I havent been asked to play, just provide the children's choir. On top of all this, nobody is communicating with me as to the reason for the request, and it's being treated like its an expectation. I am going to speak with Fr. directly about it, especially before I commit to anything, or even begin setting things up. I do have a solution for him, but I don't think he will like it. Sorry for the rant. What are your thoughts?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    As for supervision, you should have a parent or other adult in attendance anyway, just for the sake of "safe environment" considerations.

    This is a real opportunity for you, I think. Some children's choirs develop enough skill to appear in other parishes or at diocesan events.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I hadn't thought of it that way. Thank you.
  • ContinuousbassContinuousbass
    Posts: 357
    It's definitely great that you are seeking direct communication about it; that cuts thru the feeling of being manipulated, IMHO.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Interestingly enough, I provided something similar when I was an elementary school teacher. The difference is that I did not "hand the children over," but was the organist/choir director for the Mass. I also did not have another position at a church on the weekend.

    We sang once a month at the Vigil Mass. I had parent volunteers come and sit in the loft with the children. This didn't bother me because I made a good salary, liked the priest and was happy to have the kids attend Mass at least once a month. They also had a pipe organ and there aren't many around.

    I can understand your feelings. You could refuse but I'm not sure how this will affect your job, if at all. Do you know the DM at this parish? Can you communicate with him/her? Do you see eye to eye? If you can, then it may be a win win. If not, it may not be a great situation. A meeting with the priest is a great idea. I believe a second meeting with the DM is also necessary to see if you can all work well together. Opportunities and reasons for children to sing often can grow a program.

  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I suppose part of my frustration is that I don't really understand what is being asked of me and of the students. Thank you for all of your responses. It has helped greatly. Please continue if you have thoughts or ideas.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    ClergetKubisz,

    Children (unless you have a particularly brain-wash-oriented diocese) not only can, but will sing a Mass once a month. It will give them a sense of being part of the serious adult world but only if you don't do "kiddie" music..

    Potential landmines: why isn't the parish Director of Music doing this?
    can you have the freedom, if you accept the assignment, of doing
    music at this Mass which is no more childish than at other Masses?
    Is someone driving this horse who doesn't know about liturgy,
    children or the ugly mess called a children's liturgy?


    I look forward to the day when "pastoral" decision makers decide that the pastoral thing is to serve full-strength Catholic teaching.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    The freedom is another concern: I don't work for the parish music director, so it doesn't make sense for me to be taking orders and instructions from him. I'd be happy to bring whatever students wish to attend, with their parents permission, and play as well as have the students sing for the Mass. These students are K-5, so they are quite young as well. However, I don't think the dynamic of receiving a song list from him that I am instructed to teach to the children and then sending them to Mass to perform for the DM is an appropriate professional relationship, and that is exactly the dynamic that I suspect is desired.

    The children are perfectly capable of doing the job, and I never dumb it down for them: that's pedagogically incorrect anyway. So far, no one has asked for a "children's liturgy."

    The DM and I collaborated on the funeral of a parish priest this past year, and we do work well together. The organ at this church is a beautiful Wicks III/40 that I have played for about three years now and the parish enjoys having it played, since the DM won't touch it.

    This has been the most productive discourse that I've had on this subject so far. Thank you so much, and keep em coming if you have more thoughts or ideas!
  • ContinuousbassContinuousbass
    Posts: 357
    Reminds me of the choirs who get called to sing for a symphony chorus under a different conductor. It takes a little effort for them to get used to the new situation.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    As for supervision, you should have a parent or other adult in attendance anyway, just for the sake of "safe environment" considerations.


    I would just shoot a message or call down to your chancery. At least around here, there are many safe environment policies that need to be considered.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I do think you should try to do good things, musically speaking, and all, but I should point out that if I were the DM there I would take mighty exception to your statement about not taking orders from the DM since you don't work for him.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    My wife has done this in the past. For her the DM would pick the music, and she would teach it to the kids throughout the month.
    It was somewhat of a success, although you are correct, about not having control over who comes on a given Sunday.
    Most people go to a specific Mass on Sat or Sun for a reason. Only a few will change Mass times so their kids can go to a special Mass.

    In my opinion the only way to do it is an after school program that only the ones who can commit to the project come and rehearse.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    PGA, why should he? He wouldn't take orders from me either.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Well, if he came into your classroom to teach a lesson to the kids he would, woudn't he?

    I know that things can be different at different parishes, and sometimes the DM really is just the DM of the Sunday masses that he/she is actually there for.

    But at least in my case, I really am the Director of Music. If it's happening at a weekend mass, it goes through me.

    On rare ocasions, like the parish's first SAT mass, there might be someone who volunteers to do the music and our pastor lets them, and I stay out of it. But certainly anything happening for the SAT afternoon or Sunday morning masses (or on a holy day) goes through me.
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    If the DM wants a children's choir he can form one, and he can do the work of training them. I would be very cautious about doing all of the heavy lifting (and taking class time to do it) while someone else has creative control if I were you. However...as usual, YMMV.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Of course if the group comes to Mass, it only makes sense to you to conduct them, not someone with an unfamiliar conducting style. The parish should pay you for the service, with a regular musician stipend.

    The creative control has to be a joint agreement: the parish DM has the duty to review music for the parish, and you have the role of seeing that the music is worth learning. Unless you already have reason to expect bad judgment from the parish DM, don't fret too much in advance. Have the kids already learned a Mass setting?

    Start small, one event at a time.

    You ought to talk with Olbash and David Hughes, who both direct successful children's choirs; both went on tour this spring.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    PGA, the difference is that the pastor is not requesting that the DM come into the school and teach classes. He is requesting that I provide a children's choir for Mass one Sunday per month.

    Wendi, I have made that point before, and I agree with that interpretation.

    I'm going to meet with the DM to figure out what's going on. We do get along very well so I can't imagine its anything unreasonable. My fear however is that the expectation is unreasonable especially since I do not know the origin of the request.
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    I'll be praying for you.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Well, I guess the point is that everyone, both you and he, should be respectful of each other.

    I'm going to meet with the DM to figure out what's going on.

    Yes, this is exactly what should happen. I'm sure he's reasonable and you are reasonable. So you can find common ground and mutually agree on what will be done.

    My earlier sentiment was simply that the statement that "he is not your boss" sort of sounds like you had a chip on your shoulder about "listening to him." If the pastor is worth his salt, like mine is, he would tell you to consult with the DM first about what will be sung and would back the DM up in his judgments.
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