Omitting the Sequence
  • G
    Posts: 1,401
    The celebrant this morning told me that the Sequence "must" be omitted if not sung.
    I know that is not currently correct, but was it ever?

    (I cut slack for someone older following actual rubrics that are no longer in effect but were at one time, as opposed to, "gee, I dunno, but from what I remember I heard somewhere that you're supposed to...")

    Save the Liturgy, save the World!
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    Maybe he was thinking of the Gospel Acclamation?
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    In the OF, the Sequence is required on Easter and Pentecost. All others are "ad lib."
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Yes, unless you are told otherwise. I am omitting the sequence because it 'takes too long.'
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    Nice.... Kyrie eleison. I imagine you're one of many.
  • Mt 23:13
    Lk 16:10
    Lk 23:34
    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Maybe he was thinking of the Gospel Acclamation?


    If the gospel acclamation is ommited, it may be not sung.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I wish it were optional.
  • Although we knew the sequence, the choirmaster had the lector read the sequence. For shame! It's an easy song, and it only takes two minutes.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    We sang it for the first time in some years, and it came off all right, though the psalm-tone setting we used is not that interesting. Step by step!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    We sang it at three masses this morning - every word was sung with no abbreviated versions allowed.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    The ICET one is fine except for real bummers like "O most gracious light divine...shine within these hearts of th...YOURS"
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,396
    That's NOT an ICET text.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Yes, we've never omitted a required Sequence. Otherwise, it wouldn't be required.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,789
    We sang the sequence today, we will sing it again tomorrow, then Thursday, the other choir will sing it Friday, and then we will sing it Saturday! and in E.F. land they can't tell us to omit it!

    After the communion Proper we also sang one of the former Sequences for Pentecost Qui Procedis.
  • No, Fr Ron is right: it isn't an ICET text. It is the venerable translation by E Caswall. Venerable, that is, except for the cretinesque substitution of 'yours' for 'thine' in several places, even though it savages the rhyme scheme. Also, omitted in several of the first three or four lines is 'Come thou', leaving no syllable on which to sing the second note of the historic tune of this treasured 'Golden Sequence'. I played with fire (it seemed an appropriate thing to do on Pentecost) and supplied a vocative 'O' when I sang it this morning at St Basil's chapel at UST.
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I'm mean and even make my congregation sit through the Corpus Christi sequence (abbreviated). I'm not sure why THAT one isn't required. The poetry for it is flawless and is the theological CENTER of the Catholic Mass.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,092
    I had this conversation this AM with somebody who would have been just as happy to finish what Trent started...including ditching the Dies Irae.

    Of course, if we were living ca. 1600, some of you members of Ye Guild of Church Musick would be claiming that Masses without the pre-Trent sequences are invalid.

    Sing the Sequences. Preferably in translations that rhyme; failing that, in Latin. Or vice-versa.
  • Fitting the callously butchered translation of Lauda Sion to its historic tune in several weeks will really require some ingenuity. I am not above adding syllables that make sense to the 'official' version to make it fit the tune. It is obvious that those responsible for our liturgical texts are void of musicality and poetically incompetent for the task which to them has been entrusted. Why are we thought so little of that we are given the editorial remains of such irresponsible, thoughtless, and ill-equipped men and women to sing at mass?
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I say ignore the "approved" translations - I disapprove of them, as does any thoughtful musician!
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I haven't had any problems with singing the Easter and Pentecost Sequences. They are expected parts of those liturgies and no one has complained. For Body and Blood of Christ, I have been told to never sing that Sequence because it is too long. Since I never possessed a musical setting for it in the first place, it was easy to be agreeable.
  • Sad to say, The Hymnal 1940 has only an abbreviated version. Ditto the 1982. There is a complete version in The English Hymnal, and in Sir Sidney Nicholson's Plainsong Hymnal. Unfortunately the version we are given to work with has quite a few lines of seven syllables that should be eight. But, some daring ingenuity will trans-, um, transform them into the proper length to fit the tune.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    In our case, only the pastor complains. Says it takes too long. Actually, it takes up time he'd rather have to hear himself talk.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Sequences are pretty much hymns, and Trent's impulse was to restrict them as much as possible. Cathedrals and big monasteries in France had admittedly gone rather to dramatic excess. Now they are often seen as reactionary, which is interesting.
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I use the not entirely accurate version from CanticaNova for Corpus Christi. Has a refrain for the congregation. Because it's not required, I don't mind the refrain, etc.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I'm going to channel my best Mary Jane Ballou here and approch the OP concern from another perspective. The setup first- I obliged a diocesan memo and forwarded music ministry leadership and clergy an email that the singing of one of the three English (and their corresponding Spanish) settings of the PS was obligatory. Schola chanted it in English, Ensembles (and I presume other groups) likely used the Beethoven. The celebrant at the Masses for which I was present bent over backwards to explain the significance of the three required sequences in his opening remarks after the "in Nomine."
    Here's my MJB- from my vantage I have to wonder if PIPs simply regard these significant "markers" as yet another arbitrary imposition aberrantly added by priests and musicians to extend a liturgy for which they likewise arbitrarily opt to choose to sit on their larynxes and tolerate the burden of time added, or worse seeth quietly in abject obligation?
    Fr. Friel has a powerful reflection on Latin, vernaculars and comprehension over at CCW where he begs the question of the necessity of intelligibility in reasonable measure in the Mass. And in that regard, does the OF itself augur against the efficacy of these calendar moments throughout the year. It can be very frustrating, yes?
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    We always sing the sequence in English for Easter and Pentecost.
    My pastor asked me if I was going to the one for Corpus Christi.
    Does anyone have a copy of it (English) so that I can start preparing?
  • nun_34nun_34
    Posts: 68
    Here you go.
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  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,199
    Thank you Sr. Sarah David for posting the sequence.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Thank you Sister
  • The English version just above is the same as that in The English Hymnal. It is quite fine, but, unfortunately, is not the one in the lectionary, so it cannot be used. One could only wish that our lectionary provided us with something so fine!
    Thanked by 1donr
  • Sister,

    Thank you for providing this edition of Lauda Sion. Should the first pitch be one tone higher?

    Thank you for your vocation.

    Chris Garton-Zavesky
  • Actually, on closer look, it seems to be the version which served as a model for our lectionary's offering, in which the historical verb forms have been hacked to pieces without any attempt at replacing the omitted syllables so that it can be sung to the historic melody. Also, a few lines have been 'recast', presumably because the original language was deemed too fine. How can it be, that such artless amateurs are employed to provide us with liturgical texts to sing? It defies comprehension.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I stand corrected. I thought someone had told me ICET "baptized" VSS by taking Caswall and changing pronouns.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    baptized
    drownded
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • nun_34nun_34
    Posts: 68
    You're welcome.

    @CGZ - I don't know about the first pitch; you could be right. I was just following the chant sources I had available, from (1) the Dominican monastery in Summit NJ and (2) the Dominican House of Studies.

    Actually, we only sang the sequence here for the first time last year (at least, for the first time since I entered the monastery), and that in the short form in English. This year I'm having us learn it (the short form) in Latin. Little steps....
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  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Sorry for resurrecting this old thread, but isn't the sequence also required on vigil Masses for Easter and Pentecost (OF)? I went to a Mass this weekend, and it was omitted.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,116
    It's not part of the Easter Vigil. If they used the new form of Pentecost Vigil, it's not part of that either.

  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I probably should have looked this up before I posted that, but the GIRM only stipulates Easter Sunday and Pentecost Day: it mentions nothing about the vigils. But yes, it is not part of the Easter Vigil, but Pentecost doesn't really have a special Vigil Mass in the same vein as Easter, which is why I was confused. You and the GIRM have cleared that up, though. Thank you and God bless you.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,333
    As Liam alluded, Pentecost's vigil has different and distinct readings from Sunday. The sequence is not sung.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    The extended vigil of Pentecost is fascinating, but I've to see it celebrated in my neck of the woods. I almost convinced our Pastor to celebrate it the last two years, but he always changes his mind at the last minute (after we've learned everything). Ah well.
    I Vespers can be combined with Mass, and there can be four OT readings with intervening psalms. Sounds awesome. Maybe next year we'll finally experience it.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    We were pleased to celebrate a Pentecost Vigil yesterday, complete with 6 or 7 readings and 5 psalms. The Gloria was after all the Old Testament readings.

    First time I've ever experienced this!
  • I attempted to chant the sequence today, it started well and ended very well, but the middle we shall not speak of. I noticed while practicing that it seemed someone had taken a clumsy hand in modernizing the text back in '64, those "you" forms really do beg to be "thee, thine, thou, etc." which also has the advantage of singing much better. Don't people understand that "y" consonant sounds don't sing well? It is a beautiful bit of music if done well. One lady said after mass she had not heard it in many years but remembered it fondly being sung in Latin when she was young. The other masses had the "Ode to Joy" adaptation of the sequence instead.

    Unfortunately we forgot to bring back the "Alleluia" with the Ite Missa Est, but then we had the tone deaf deacon who can neither match nor hold a pitch, so perhaps that was a "happy fault".