composing as fruit of prayer
  • ybello
    Posts: 5
    When in prayer, and God speaks, He sometimes uses music. Looking for composers who have similar experiences, who dialogue with God, in music based on a Biblical theme.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    When composing, I wish to be transparent and allow the truth, beauty and goodness of the Creator show through in the music, whether it is sacred or secular (except when I compose in the style of Mozart). Then I am nothing but opaque. It all begins and ends with the notes on the page, the gymnastic feats that the performer can impress, and when the performance stops, so does any lasting effect that it will have on the soul.

    ADDED:

    I have only composed one piece in the Mozartian style in my entire life, and that was yesterday. It will also be my last. It was fresh on my mind since you brought up composing, so I apologize if my comments offend you. My other forumites will be happy that I added this part so as not to drive you away.

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    Thanked by 1Blaise
  • It might be helpful to note that this musical forum is centered on mostly Roman and other arms and legs of the Catholic church family (Orthodox...and others) liturgical music
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    ybello

    After rereading your post, it seems that what you are saying is that God speaks to you through music that you are listening to. Is that correct? And then are you asking if a composer would write something and sing it back to God? I think the title threw me more in the direction as what a composer experiences when writing music and didn't really speak to your question.
  • When in prayer, and God speaks, He sometimes uses music. Looking for composers who have similar experiences, who dialogue with God, in music based on a Biblical theme.


    That reminds me of Hildegard von Bingen, an amazing composer and abbess.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlX8J8jxBWY
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Adam Wood
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    did bingen compose the pentecost chant?
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Yes, I find composing sacred music to be quite cathartic.
  • did bingen compose the pentecost chant?

    The sequence? Not that I'm aware of... I was delighted to find out Benny XVI named her a Doctor of the Church in 2012.
    image
  • Her Spiritus Sanctus chant-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bESElyI18M
    Thanked by 2Gavin ybello
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    The original poster (I'm pretty sure) was talking about receiving musical content as direct and specific inspiration from God, in the context of prayer and meditation.

    This is a fairly well-attested phenomenon across all religious and spiritual traditions, though not at all universal to all individuals.

    Hildegard, if I remember correctly, described her compositions this way.
    (I could be wrong about that, but I think it's right. Also, she painted her visions.)

    The Shakers, who generated a huge corpus of music over their two centuries of activity, described musical composition entirely in these terms. They didn't even say that someone had written or composed a piece of music, but rather that he or she had "received" it, or that it had been "given."

    Indeed, the canticles in the early chapters of Luke, and the story of the "composition" of the Te Deum by Ambrose and Augustine can be understood in these terms. And even if one considers these accounts to be more "tales" than "history," even their existence in religious tradition confirms that people have always and everywhere accepted the reception of a fully-composed song as inspiration from the Holy Spirit to be within the realm of divine possibility.
  • Annabel
    Posts: 13
    Byrd by night.
    Moreover, in the words themselves (as I have learned from experience) there is such hidden and mysterious power that to a person thinking over divine things, diligently and earnestly turning them over in his mind, the most appropriate measures come, I do not know how, and offer themselves freely to the mind that is neither idle nor inert.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    In my meager compositional output, I have written very little in the way of purely instrumental music (a few organ fugues - and a terrible Mozartian Sonatina as part of a school project); I have mainly written vocal music: Masses, Hymns, Anthems, Motets, Part-songs. Very rarely have I said "I want to write a piece settings XYZ text". I might be reading a piece of poetry, or a piece of verse, sacred or secular, comes to my mind, and the theme(s) gradually show up while thinking about it, and the piece gradually builds.

    That's sort-of the easy part of composing, it's the editing/revising that I can't stand. (Blast it, another parallel fifth with the tenor, we'll change that to a...nope direct octaves with the treble...Oh, heck...) That's the nice thing about Shape-note style, parallel fifths and octaves are good!
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    Salieri:

    Has anyone done a study on parallel fifths and octaves utilized by the Renaissance Masters? It would be an interesting project.
  • ybello
    Posts: 5
    Thank you for your comments. I would like to reiterate the comment: When in prayer, and we, as composers, are in conversation with God and God speaks in musical terms, have you had such experiences. It is clear that some music that we hear is so inspired that affects the listener because of how beautiful it is. I'm inclined to think that such inspirations, that affect the listener, are from God Himself. I was hoping to hear from composers that have had that experience. So, during prayer, does music come to mind.
  • It's a dialogue to be sure: during music, prayer comes to mind. It's a gift of the Holy Spirit, really.
    O most blessed Light divine,
    Shine within these hearts of yours,
    And our inmost being fill!
    Pentecost Sequenza

    image King David the Psalmist
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen ybello
  • ybello
    Posts: 5
    how many here pray before composing OR while praying composing something comes to mind?
    Thanked by 1ZacPB189
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I know I often pray while I'm improvising on the organ during Mass. If I am improving on a Cantus Firmus, I'll think/meditate on the text while playing, I'll often linger over a word that strikes me. I usually improvise with the Graduale open in front of me, and read the text.
  • ybello
    Posts: 5
    That's awesome!! do you consider that to be in a conversation with God? I mean, do you feel it's one way, He to you, or you use that grace to communicate back?
  • ybello
    Posts: 5
    Isn't Salieri the name of the guy who stole the last composition Mozart wrote as he was dying in the movie??? if yes, any relation???
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    They were contemporaries and sometimes competitors, but also friends: Mozart took Salieri and his wife to see "The Magic Flute" and wrote of how Salieri gave bravos to every number.

    The story of the 'stolen' Requiem is described here:
    http://inmozartsfootsteps.com/380/the-real-story-of-mozart-salieri-and-amadeus-2/
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    I find that when improvising, one is experiencing something like being a medium in collaboration with angelic beings who carry inspirations from the Holy Spirit and direct each moment and movement of hands, feet and mind to play what God desires.

    The mind (understanding music theory, harmony and melodic shape) in the Gregorian tradition is simply a guide-way, but the notes, harmony, melodies and counterpoint are all realized moment by moment in the inspiration of what has just occurred through ones own playing. Sometimes a cantus firmus can be the guide, sometimes a spiritual disposition, all under a larger guide-way of the theme of the liturgy which lends shape to modality, major or minor keys and modulation.

    When accompanying 'the great drama' it is important to be completely subserviant to all the actions of the priest, the flow of the liturgy and to the angelic realm that will act upon the 'players' in the liturgy. They (the angelic realm) has utter respect for the rules and rubrics of the liturgy as designed by holy Mother Church, and we should be sensitive to their leanings.
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    More and more, my belief is: inspiration is relying on Holy Spirit (or something beyond us, for lack of a better name) for approximately 1-3% of our music; improvising is relying on past habits and 1-3% inspiration; and writing music professionally is relying on very very very much hard work, study, and continual re-examination, plus a little inspiration and a little improvisation. cf. Beethoven sketchbooks.
  • Padster
    Posts: 40
    Recently I have composed music that I would have found impossible to do previously. (My compositions before were mind-numbingly dull and aimless) The way these new pieces have turned out, with only very minor modification (often just registration changes) has quite astonished me, as have some of the modulations I have pulled off which on paper would appear unworkable. I don't even have to work hard at it, the music just happens. The explanation for this has to be Francis's chums in the angelic realm. I feel a bit of a fraud putting my name to the pieces really.....

    Best wishes,
    Padster