Saturday evening Mass a vigil?
  • lmassery
    Posts: 422
    This might seem like a dumb question but does a regular 4pm or 4:30pm Saturday Mass always count as a "vigil" Mass when there are different readings/propers for a "vigil?" For example, St. Peter and Paul coming up in June, or Pentecost. I had it in my mind that a vigil meant it had to be after sundown and the 4:30 Mass could use the daytime readings as an "anticipatory" Mass. Is there an official ruling on this or is it up to the priest? And does this mean that there would be no pentecost sequence at the 4:30 Mass, only Sunday Masses?
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Only the Easter Vigil has to be after dusk (not just sunset, btw; it's supposed to be after evening twilight has ended).

    Don't confuse the determination of the propers for the Mass on the (post-4pm) evening before a day of precept (Sunday or Holyday of Obligation) with the issue of what satisfies the preceptual obligation.

    Pentecost Vigil has a proper liturgy of its own. Follow it on the Pentecost Vigil from 4PM on. Where the rubrics for a vigil permit use of lections from the Mass of the following day, you may do so. For example, the Gospel for the Christmas Mass at Night may be also used at the Mass for the Vigil.
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 314
    It's always permissible -- and sometimes required -- to use the Vigil texts for the Saturday evening Mass, regardless of the position of the sun. Check the missal and/or Lectionary -- it's all spelled out clearly for each day.
    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • RevAMG
    Posts: 162
    The terminology can be confusing. The Saturday evening Mass is most often a "Mass of Anticipation" and uses the propers from Sunday. Only those Masses said the evening before that have their own propers are truly "Vigil Masses" (such as Christmas, Easter, or Pentecost). The Easter Vigil, furthermore, is truly the "mother of all holy vigils" as St. Augustine says. The Missal and Lectionary show when the Mass is a true "Vigil Mass" instead of a "Mass of Anticipation." I believe, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, that in the Extraordinary Form, the Vigil Masses were quite different from the actual feast day Mass, even with different colored vestments than the feast.
  • lmassery
    Posts: 422
    Thank you all. I also discovered that the ORDO said re: Pentecost 'that the sequence may be omitted at the vigil; if the Vigil, however, for pastoral reasons, makes us of the readings of Pentecost Day, the Sequence should be sung." So I guess the priest can indeed decide to use the day readings instead of the vigil readings.
  • kenstb
    Posts: 369
    I really love doing the vigil masses on Christmas, Easter and Pentecost. Unfortunately, it seems in my parish that everyone has a date on the Vigil of Pentecost and the priest doesn't want to make the mass any longer. This disturbs me since the church presents the vigil mass for our good, and I am of the opinion that whenever we have an opportunity to use more scripture, it is a good idea to do so.
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    I know this probably doesn't apply to you, but just thought I would note that it is up the episcopal conference to set a time after which a Saturday mass may be an anticipated Mass of sunday. in Ireland that time is 6pm, so a Mass starting before that time may never use the sunday readings and prayers, there may be a similar local ruling where you are. Saturday mass is always permitted on a Saturday, so the choice after 6 pm Saturday is up to the priest, whether or not to say the mass for Saturday or sunday. regardless of which mass he says, you may count the mass as fulfilling your sunday obligation, as long as it is after 6 pm. Similarly, if two holy days of obligation fall side by side you may count the evening mass as fulfilling one of those obligations, but not both, the priests choice of mass text depending on precedence of the holy days as per normal rules. Finally, a theological question - mass on Saturday may fulfil your obligation to attend mass, but as it does not actually happen on a sunday, can it be said to fulfil the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy, which is given a broader definition that simply going to mass?
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    In the USA, the dividing time that was adopted by our bishops a few decades ago is 4pm, which flows out of Pius XII's permission for evening Masses in the 1950s.

    If Saturday is a non-preceptual solemnity or feast that is of higher precedential rank than the observance of Sunday, the propers of a late afternoon Mass after 4pm on Saturday would be those of Saturday, but attendance would satisfy the preceptual obligation for Sunday nonetheless.

    FWIW, the part of keeping the Sabbath holy that consists of attending Mass is indeed satisfied by attendance at Mass on Saturday evening. To that extent, it's not a theological problem.
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    If Saturday is a non-preceptual solemnity or feast that is of higher precedential rank than the observance of Sunday, the propers of a late afternoon Mass after 4pm on Saturday would be those of Saturday, but attendance would satisfy the preceptual obligation for Sunday nonetheless.

    Could you give an example? I'm not sure I disagree with the above statement, but I can't think of any single case where it would be applicable. Are you saying that, for example, if the Solemnity of SS. Peter and Paul fell on a Saturday, you must celebrate that Mass on Saturday evening instead of the anticipation of Sunday?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Are you saying that, for example, if the Solemnity of SS. Peter and Paul fell on a Saturday, you must celebrate that Mass on Saturday evening instead of the anticipation of Sunday?


    Exactly.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    An example is Transfiguration (August 6). It outranks Sundays of Ordinary Time. (See the table.)

    If Transfiguration falls on a Saturday, a Saturday afternoon 4 p.m. Mass should use its propers. Still, faithful attending that Mass have fulfilled their obligation by attending Mass in a Catholic rite during the time period defined by the bishop.

    (I say 'the bishop' because at times dioceses have varied. For years, Philadelphia was a famous exception that allowed no anticipated Masses on Saturday evening.)
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    "Should" notwithstanding, I'll say I have never seen it happen around here. Not that I have taken a careful survey, mind you. But the priest will have prepared his homily for the Sunday readings...

    This year All Saints is the test case.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    If Christmas falls on a Saturday and you are one of those rare communities that proceeds with a 4pm Mass on Christmas Day, the propers are still for Christmas, not Holy Family. We've covered this topic several times. The USCCB staff used to get this wrong for many years, and finally corrected themselves the last time round. That said, many probably most priests and liturgists go on autopilot.
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    "Should" notwithstanding, I'll say I have never seen it happen around here.


    Exactly. With the exception of actual Vigil Masses, I don't think I've ever seen this.
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