Greetings from Ohio! And a question too
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    Hi there! I'm a violinist from Youngstown, Ohio, currently finishing my Master's degree in music history. My primary area of "expertise" (if it can be called that!) is the instrumental music of Heinrich Biber. My thesis research led me into a necessary and wonderful exploration of his sacred compositions, which has fed my growing curiosity about sacred music in general. I have also been contemplating taking employment as a church musician after graduation, as I am also a pianist and would like to (and should be) using that skill to my advantage- a tough thing to do when the other instrument took over my life 18 years ago LOL! So, just the few things in a nutshell that led me here.

    If no one minds, I have just one question:

    1. This is research-related, and I have met mostly dead ends trying to get an answer anywhere else. If Biber or any other 17th century composer writes a Mass setting, do they indicate which chants to use before each section? My guess is no, as none of the modern editions give any indications, and modern recordings seem to use different chants depending on who-knows-what. Anyone with knowledge on this please chime in, I cannot seem to find anything!

    Looking forward to learning and chatting!

    -Karen

    ps. Wait! I have one more question. I want to change my profile picture but every time I do, the site freezes up and my computer (MacBook Pro) says I have to force restart the web page...What am I doing wrong?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    Karen:

    Welcome to our forum. We love having new eyes and voice-to-texters here!

    I cannot even begin to answer your first question, but there may be some who chime in as you wish.

    As for your ps... It sounds like you have a system issue. I don't think it has anything to do with our website. It may also be a browser issue. Try NOT using Safari. I am a huge Macaddict, but I avoid Safari. Have you tried Firefox?
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    I do not have Firefox on my MacBook, but it's worth a try! I intend to spend a bit of time browsing and reading on this forum- not going to be fun if my computer won't let me LOL!

    I completely understand... Even my brilliant advisor (no, honestly he is brilliant) had no answers for that question!
  • Kevin Anthony
    Posts: 40
    Hi Karen. My current advisor is a 17th century scholar in the realm of sacred music. If you would like to contact him, I could send you a personal message with info.

    Kevin
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    I believe that there was often not one chant that the composer had in mind. Remember the priest would be chanting some of those, for example the incipit to the gloria.
    If I were you and wanted to perform the work, I would look through the collection of the 18 well known masses and se which ones might be in the mode of your compisition.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    Incipits are fairly flexible, but several principles are at play.
    1. The incipit should match the modality of the movement that follows it.
    2. It's helpful to the choir if it ends on the pitch they come in on (or is intended to end on that pitch, priests being what they are).
    3. Editions matter. For liturgical use, you're well-off to use the Liber, since it's what the priest will be used to. But if you're doing an edition, or a concert, it's better to use a version of the chant which is contemporary with the piece. Fortunately, the same edition of chant was authorized from ca. 1610 to about the end of the 19th c. This was the revision envisioned by the Council of Trent and begun by Palestrina. The volumes were published in Rome by the Medicaean press (the Graduale de Tempore in 1614). There's a beautiful facsimile series of these published by the Libreria Editrice Vaticana in 2001, but the same basic edition was published through the 19th c. by Pustet.
    Before then, it's an issue of various local uses, and you need more serious musicological chops to do it right.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Well, when done during Mass, the chants are already prescribed as the Ordinary and Proper of the Mass. I'm not sure if that is exactly what you're talking about, but that would explain the differences in recordings, especially if you're finding live recordings during Mass. As for academic recordings, I'm not sure how they even decide which chants to use in the first place, although the only chants you'd actually have would be from the Proper of the Mass. Someone with more knowledge might correct me on this, and I would welcome it.
  • FidemInFidebusFidemInFidebus
    Posts: 611
    These are academic recordings, so again I have no idea how they are making their decisions. Perhaps taking a look at the specific days or occasions for which Biber's masses were performed will provide a clue, but if modern performers are considering such things I tend to doubt it...

    @ Jeffrey: I believe there is a local element involved, and you are correct that a great deal of musicological sleuthing is involved to determine when and why a composer is choosing a specific chant. The particular chant in question for my research is Credo III, and just browsing here on the forum did not bring up much information, although I was not the first to wonder where this Credo originated. The 19th C. Liber says its 17th century, and that's all. Besides J.S. Bach's stunning rendition of it in the B Minor Mass, I am not aware of any similar settings...Without divulging too much detail, however, a section of my thesis addresses a possible instrumental setting in one of Biber's instrumental works, thus I am keen on finding out as much about Credo III as possible!
    ;-)

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