Ignatius Pew Missal
  • B. Ruelas Ford
    Posts: 15
    For those who can't get their parishes to buy permanent missals-- Ignatius and Lighthouse have teamed up and put together this subscription-based missalette.

    http://www.pewmissal.com/

    -B. Ruelas Ford
    Thanked by 2Heath hilluminar
  • B. Ruelas Ford
    Posts: 15
    (Featuring the chants of Fr. Samuel Weber!)
    Thanked by 1Heath
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    very cool!
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I will not be able to sell this to my pastor because of the square notes and because it does not contain the Spanish.
    Too bad, I think its great otherwise.
  • ContinuousbassContinuousbass
    Posts: 357
    Square notes rule. I find it easier to sight-sing with square notes than modern notation, even though I've more experience with round notes.
    Thanked by 4Ben Ryan Murphy M. Jackson Osborn mloucks
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I agree. I am the same way, but I don't make the decisions for the new Missals.
    If I did we would have already purchased the Lumen Christi.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    It's too bad people are afraid of square notes. The music found in this is a perfect introduction to square notes, because of the simplicity of the music. Why treat people like they are dumb? Square notes aren't rocket science, especially in syllabic chants.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I don't know why it scares people, but it does.
    When I suggested to my choir that I will be having a class on how to read square notes this summer, most stated they would not come.
    But if I transcribe the square into round and pass it out to everyone they love what they are singing.

    Go figure, I have a lot of work to do here. I will manage to teach a couple here and a couple there, and eventually work up to a nice small schola but it will take a couple of more years.

    I am in search of a good missal so we can stop using the throw away versions, but I can not justify to my parish a missal (even of such great content as the LCM or the Ignatius Pew Missal) that has square notes. It will get rejected at a glance without even review.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    How about Gregorian Chant with round notes?

    Is it the square edges of the notes that is intimidating or is it the ligatures? Or is it four lines as opposed to five lines? Or is it moveable DO?

    Can you question each person and ask exactly what the intimidating part would be? It would be an interesting study.
    Thanked by 4Ben Ryan Murphy SpeakNSpirit Mary Ann
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    It's those d**n antiquarian, anachronistic, Luddite EF mass musicians who love those square notes. (Snark, Double Snark, Purple Bold)
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    From the heart the mouth speaks. (black)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    No, it speaks from the mouth. Add anti-scientific, anatomically-incorrect to the above list. (SNARK)

    I could read square notes at a young age. They are simple, but notation software doesn't always work with them. Also, if the pastor tells you not to use them, that pretty much ends that discussion.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    We do some Chant with round notes and they are fine with it.
    I don't really know what scares them. If I can convince them that its actually easier to read I'm sure they will change their minds but to this point most of the choir and the pastor are not interested.

    So I either need to wait another 2 or 3 years to replace our current subscription or someone needs to come out with a missal like the LCM or IPM with round notes.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    I have to admit that with all that happens on Sunday mornings, whether or not notes are square or round is that last thing on my mind.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    That is quite beautiful. (And it even has Be Not Askeered, so there's one objection dealt with.)
    As to the objection to square-note, when it's not political, IME it is the four lines that give people who already read well caniptions. (Probably shouldn't admit this, but when there's a chant giving me trouble wiht intervals I add in a fifth and imagine a moden key signature.)

    Save the Liturgy, save the World!
    Thanked by 1janetgorbitz
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    donr

    i have developed a hybrid chant notation if the fifth line is an issue.

    http://romancatholicsacredmusic.com/seehear/koHyChaNo.pdf
    Thanked by 4donr G Ben irishtenor
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    That's pretty cool Francis, I will have to show this to my wife. She's our accompanist.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    What donr said.
    Except the part about the wife.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    G... you need to get a wife!
    Thanked by 2canadash Gavin
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    May I suggest handing out a score with both notations?
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Gerald_KlaasGerald_Klaas
    Posts: 12
    Not much chance of my parish switching, but I'd love to visit a parish that implements this. I hope Ignatius and Lighthouse consider publishing a list of parishes "worth driving to."
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    worth walking to
    driving to
    flying to
    swimming to
    etc...
    Thanked by 1Gerald_Klaas
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Francis,

    is that hybrid only an example, or have you used it for any projects?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    So far just an example of what I am able to do with my InDesign dragndrop.
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    I just received a perusal copy of this resource.

    On the whole, it’s an excellent job. The cover and inside pages feel like a higher quality paper than I’ve seen from LitPress, WLP, and OCP. The copy that I received had some misprints here and there, but one of the editors has told me that many of such have been fixed.

    The Willan Mass setting is perhaps the biggest highlight here. It may well be the only non-freely-reproducible setting that I would consider introducing to my parish’s congregation. Kudos to Fr. Haynes at St. John Cantius for his fine work in making this music workable for Roman (Rite) Catholics!

    There is almost none of the gender-neutering or text modernization that plagues so many published resources today, as a result of which most of the texts sing quite well and naturally. The only iffy spot that I found was “Good Christian friends”, which I find awkward but not unworkable—and, if there is one hymn to gender-neutralize, that’s probably it.

    The selection of hymns is quite good: most of the standards are there, and there are some nice “surprises”. Some of them (e.g., “Crown him with many crowns”) could stand to have more of the verses. There are also a few conspicuous omissions, alas, e.g.: “O saving victim”/DUGUET, “How brightly beams the morning star”, “Angels from the realms of glory”.

    To make the resource more tenable in “typical” parishes, there is a sizable selection of “pop”-style selections, including “Be Not Afraid”, “Here I Am, Lord”, and “Hail Mary, Gentle Woman”. Whatever one thinks of this aspect of it, there it is.

    I’ve not made a thorough review of the current spate of missalette/hymnal offerings, but from what I’ve seen this is hands-down better than anything from the major publishers.
    Thanked by 1Heath
  • Heath
    Posts: 933
    Thanks for sharing, Felipe. I grabbed sample copy at the Colloquium, but the Willan setting was in there yet (copyright pending, or some such).

    I, too, think it is an excellent resource. My only big gripe is the monotony of the proper settings. I love the idea of trying to simplify the chants so they can be sung on sight by a whole crowd of non-musicians . . . but I think bumping up the difficulty level up just a hair would have still made them easy enough to sing, and more interesting/beautiful. I'll be curious to hear back from people that use them, though, to see how the people take to them!

    Kudos to Fr. Weber and Ignatius for a great resource!
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    I think I would rather see the Bartlett propers, or something else that uses the Graduale Romanum’s texts rather than the Missal’s. The Missal antiphons are, IMO, more properly for speaking, not for singing.
    Thanked by 3Adam Wood bonniebede CCooze
  • bshonka
    Posts: 6
    We had a hard time receiving our copies in a timely manner. We have been chanting the entrance & communion antiphons and the responsorial to the Meinrad Tones for a few years now. Our parish had been using World Library's Seasonal Missalet. My pastor, tho basically a non-singer, feels comfortable with the Meinrad Tones---So now, with the Ignatius Pew Missal, we chant the antiphons from the book and then use the appropriate Meinrad Tone for the Glory Be and for the verses in the Responsorial. It makes a very nice and refreshing (slightly more elaborate) setting of the propers. Several of us privately use the prayer section--before Mass; the Sucipe during offertory; and after Mass prayers. I'm extremely happy not having junk music and no heretical communion songs/hymns as well as a resource for the whole year. A cost study proved a substantial savings for both my parish and our sister parish which had been using OCP. This Missal is the best in its class from what I've seen. During Advent - (will do) during Lent---the Organ is used VERY little. I give intonations using an Alto Recorder; the congregation seems to respond better than with the organ---perhaps something about the intimacy of the instrument?
    Thanked by 2noel jones, aago canadash
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I just received my copy. So far I like it. It has good hymn selection.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    Why treat people like they are dumb?


    Because, by and large they are.
    Thanked by 3Gavin Adam Wood Ben
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Laughing, hysterically!

    Why treat people like they are dumb?


    Working in a parish you should already know that you have nothing to fear from "dumb" people. The dangerous ones are the "smart" people.

    Classifying people and treating them differently because you think they are dumb is dumb.

    Sensitivity to all (or in other words, what would Francis do?) (not Koerber, the other famous one) is a great way to manage people in any situation. Thinking that they are dumb would seem to fall short of an ideal...
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Why treat people like they are dumb?

    Because, by and large they are.



    I'm surprised to read such a comment by someone who recently asked "Is such bigotry routinely allowed on this site?"

    The same question applies here, and a comment like this poses a threat to perception of the CMAA. Are we stewards of the music of the universal church, bringing it to our local parishes with skill, passion, and Christian love, or are we elitist snobs looking down on the uneducated musics of suburbia from our ivory towers?

    I request that bhcordova's post be deleted and that displays of such attitudes from the CMAA be treated with zero tolerance.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    Are we all a bit overdue for a holiday now? After this week's Riu riu chiu a chorister turned me on to Ruben Dario's Los motives del lobo (with subtitles). Too many "fauces de furia" in the world already to make zero tolerance sound like a good idea.

    It's heartening though that we're mostly politically correct enough to stand up for the dumb.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    If someone were perusing this site, curious but not sold on what the CMAA promotes, and just trying to get a better idea of what we're all about, they come by this thread and see we're motivated not by a helpful guidance of congregations to a more reverent liturgy, but by leading the dumb sheep to what they don't know is good for 'em. Hardly becoming.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Who do we think we are: Professor Gruber? :-)
    Thanked by 2Richard Mix melofluent
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    The source of the question, eight months ago, was Ben's comment:

    It's too bad people are afraid of square notes. The music found in this is a perfect introduction to square notes, because of the simplicity of the music. Why treat people like they are dumb? Square notes aren't rocket science, especially in syllabic chants.


    Are most people really "dumb" about square notes: that is, unreasonable about them? Yes and no: I think most of our congregation (capacity: 140) never pick up any music. The most use of hymnals or missalettes seems to come when the song is something very popular, such as a Christmas carol. Even at best, it's maybe one-third of the congregation; most typically it's 10%. When so few are using a score at all, why worry about whether the notes are square or round?
    Thanked by 1Salieri
  • EphemeraPshaw
    Posts: 2
    the alleluia is pretty short in the book of propers... (is the alleluia a proper?) My deacon complained it didn't give him enough time to travel. Is it good practice to play the alleluia.. then cantor.. then congregation followed by the acclaimation then another congregation.. ?
  • EphemeraPshaw
    Posts: 2
    btw love the hymn selections offered on the planner site http://pewmissal.com/LitPlan/
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Classically, the Alleluia is a proper, because its verse changes, and there is a distinct Gregorian melody for each one. For the Latin texts, those melodies (Alleluia and verse) are in the Graduale Romanum. Those melodies provide plenty of time for the deacon's ceremonial actions.

    But most modern "missal" books and booklets for the congregation use some simple melody for the Alleluia, and a psalm tone for the verse.

    It sounds like you are presenting it in the usual way:

    1. organ plays the Alleluia melody
    2. cantor sings Alleluia
    3. congregation sings Alleluia
    4. cantor sings verse
    5. all sing Alleluia

    Have you found that provides enough time for the deacon's action and procession?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    I'd forgotten that we had a conversation in which were were divided on whether or not we thought people were dumb. How could I forget this?

    And, I'm a little confused about the travel time...is he truly just traveling or making a big deal out of his procession?


  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Re: the deacon needing more time to travel/ the music needing to cover the liturgical action, I would also ask whether incense is used. Incensations would lengthen the time.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    divided on whether or not we thought people were dumb


    Half the people on the planet are of below-average intelligence.

    (Also, the majority of people have an above-average number of legs.)
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    "Half the people on the planet are of below-average intelligence."

    Only if the mean (average) coincides with the median. The average yearly income in the United States is vastly higher than the median income.

    For another example, consider the following nine numbers:

    1
    10
    100
    1,000
    10,000
    100,000
    1,000,000
    10,000,000
    100,000,000

    Their sum is 111,111,111, so that their mean (average) = 111,111,111/9 = 12,345,679; however, their median is 10,000.

    The correct statement that Adam should have made is this: Half the people on the planet are of below-median intelligence.

    Here endeth the lesson.
    Thanked by 3tomjaw Adam Wood eft94530
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Didn't you notice, CH, Adam making that very point with the line about legs?
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    My deacon complained it didn't give him enough time to travel.


    Organ improvisation at the beginning or the end to cover the Deacon's journey.
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn noel jones, aago
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,366
    'Here endeth the lesson.'

    Thanks be to God!
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen eft94530
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    You can travel faster if you have more legs.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I assume the distribution of intelligence follows (roughly) a bell curve. Maybe that isn't accurate.
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 774
    I looked at the sample on the web site. I respect Fr. Weber's work, but why waste typesetting on these chants, which are recitation formulas, not melodies? He has other options in his book. Does Ignatius really hold out so little hope for their congregations? Most won't put up with this liturgical minimalism for half a year.
    Thanked by 4matthewj CHGiffen MBW BruceL
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    On the subject of "dumb" people .... it seems to me that the label "dumb" is usually applied to someone with whom the speaker disagrees. This is especially true when the speaker is a "middle of the road" person. If the speaker is a person who believes that women should be ordained priests and we should learn how to worship God from Protestants, on the other hand, the term isn't dumb, it's rigid.

    This distinction is important: dumb-ness can be educated away, but rigidity can only be broken. In fairness, however, ruthlessness is employed against both groups. Only those who try to follow what the Church teaches must learn to be "more flexible", "more tolerant", "more based in real life", or "come down from the ivory tower".


  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    I assume the distribution of intelligence follows (roughly) a bell curve. Maybe that isn't accurate.


    Yes, the distribution of intelligence follows, roughly, a bell curve. If IQ tests don't have a normal (bell) distribution, then the tests are adjusted to get that. In other words, mental retardation is no more common or rare than being a genius, but less common than having intelligence in the 'average range'. Also, by definition, the average intelligence of a population is 100.
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