Compline hymn tone for Immaculate Conception 1962 Liber Usualis
  • veromaryveromary
    Posts: 162
    Very off topic, but hoping someone has a quick answer.

    My 1962 Liber Usualis with English rubrics tells me that the hymn Tone for Advent is used...

    "even on Feasts. But on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception and during its Octave, the ordinary Tone for the Feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary is used, except on the Sunday within the Octave, and on the Octave day itself if this should fall on a Sunday, when the Tone for Advent is used, with the doxology of the Sunday." p327

    But the 62 Liber doesn't have the Tone for the Feasts of the BMV, or any doxology variations. They are in the prior version.

    I'm putting together a Compline booklet. Should I bring in the '56 hymn tone for the Blessed Virgin Mary, or direct readers to the tone for first class feasts?

    The listing on p1315 for the feast of the Immaculate Conception says to use the "chant for feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary, p268" but there is no such chant there.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,189
    Interesting. On p. 268 is the Mode 8 setting, with the indication that it is for use in Paschal time Sundays and feasts. I wonder if this is the intention.
  • veromaryveromary
    Posts: 162
    In the earlier edition of the Liber Usualis, p268 does have a setting of the Te Lucis "In Festis et Octavis B. Mariae Virginis. It seems like it was removed in the 1962 edition, but the cross references remain.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,779
    It should be remembered that the Liber Usualis has a few errors... especially the 1962 version that tried to make best use of the previously typeset pages so a few more errors were added. Further changes were expected, and it was thought not worth typesetting the 1957 / 1962 ed. from scratch.

    I do not have a 1962 Antiphonal to check but the FSSP Compline booklet here;
    http://www.introibo.de/download/gratisschriften/komplet.pdf
    suggests that it was omitted, but can be used ad libitum.

    When we sing Compline we use the Marian melody on feasts of the BVM, usually with it's proper doxology.

    N.B. The doxology used to change for certain feasts, including Feasts of the BVM, in the 1962 it 'should' be the common doxology.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Robert
  • veromaryveromary
    Posts: 162
    Komplet fur alle Tage is awesome! Thank you!
  • rarty
    Posts: 96
    Found this thread while planning for my parish this year. I though I'd add that the Latin-only edition of the 1962 Liber Usualis has changed the rubric on p. 1314: "Ad Completorium, Hymnus cantatur in tono II de dominca, 267" (which indeed is the tone for I class feasts).

    I'm not personally convinced that eliminating the Marian tone (and others) necessarily follows from the rubric to not change doxologies (in the 1960 Breviary reform), but it looks like the editors of the Liber Usualis in the 60s thought so.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,779
    I'm not personally convinced that eliminating the Marian tone (and others) necessarily follows from the rubric to not change doxologies (in the 1960 Breviary reform), but it looks like the editors of the Liber Usualis in the 60s thought so.


    The editors tried to reuse as much of the typeset pages from the earlier book. The problem was that the Hymn would need to be re-typeset, as the doxology was wrong, in my edition it suggests to turn to a page to find the chant but it is missing. This appears to be an error as a new page should have been inserted, but was never finished of at least not inserted in the final version.

    I would follow the practice as suggested in the FSSP book to use the Marian tone with the common doxology, which would more closely follow the Rubrics.

    N.B. The Liber Usualis is not an approved book!
  • veromaryveromary
    Posts: 162
    There's a changed doxology left for the feast of the Holy Family too. Also Sacred Heart and Christ the King.
  • rarty
    Posts: 96
    The English/1961 Liber (as scanned by the CMAA) does retain several typeset versions of Te lucis with proper doxologies and melodies. But on p. LXVIII-LXVIX of the same book, it clearly states that the doxology shouldn't change (as in the new breviary). And while the melody should still change for the Season, it shouldn't for any particular feast. And that includes feasts within a season... which is why the Advent tone is now (1962) never used for the feast of the Immaculate Conception.

    The rest of the melodies mentioned on p. 269 will no longer be used, as well as that given for feasts of Our Lady, p. 1256.


    I doubt this consolidation is merely due to a technical issue or reluctance to re-typeset the hymns with the common doxology, because in the same book all of the seasonal melodies of Te lucis and the other hymns of the minor hours were re-typeset. In the 1961 edition, the remaining melodies with changed doxologies were meant to be ignored, per the updated rubrics in the front.

    For what it's worth, my 1962 Liber (all Latin, no. 780) has replaced the proper melody/doxology hymns (at Compline, Terce, Sext, None) for Sacred Heart and Christ the King with a copy using the normal melody for I class/Solemn feasts, and updated the various rubrics and references for the hymn tones for the other effected feasts.

    Now the idea that the melodies of the hymns at minor hours should change for seasons but not for feasts isn't in any Vatican decree I've ever seen, but it appears that the Solesmes/Desclee editors were quite convinced of it, and in fact the modern Liber Hymnarius (by Solesmes) is similar in this regard.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,291
    Some people just change it anyways...
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,779
    I still think the problem is with the 1962 L.U. They were trying to keep up with changes that came think and fast, and they were not very successful.

    I don't think the Liber Hymnarius is a good example of a book to compare to the L.U. They have different purposes, the L.H. is more a scholarly work including the latest texts from the pen of Lentini and the melodies chosen by Solesmes as being most authentic. N.B. The 'authentic melodies have been and no doubt are subject to change as further research is completed.)

    To give some understanding of how these changes may have come about, the following is well worth reading...

    http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/originally-posted-on-april-24-this-year.html
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen