Copyright question
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    I've tried to search the forum and was unable to find this question addressed in a previous thread, but if it has been, please forgive the duplication.

    I'm in the process of putting together worship booklets for Triduum, and will be using several of Arlene Oost-Zinner's psalm refrains in place of the ones in our current pew resource (the name of which I will not utter here), and discovered at the bottom of them the following legend:

    Lectionary for Mass for Use in the Dioceses of the United States, second typical edition, Copyright 2001 . . . Psalm refrain (c) 1997 . . . Neither this work nor any part of it may be reproduced, distributed, performed [!!!] or displayed in any medium . . . without permission in writing from the copyright owner.


    So, now what do I do? Do I seriously need to obtain written permission to perform the psalms during the liturgy, let alone obtain permission to reprint these refrains in a worship booklet?

    I may be panicking unnecessarily, and as I said, I may be missing an important discussion thread where this was covered, but frankly if I'm not permitted to use that which belongs to the Church in service to the Church, I'm going to start looking at that career in truck-driving I've been dreaming of.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Contra statements that may be made by zealous IP owners, performance IN LITURGY never requires permission. Ever.

    Printed copies, though... that's where the money is.

    (One wonders abiut the status of copies made within the context of liturgy, for instance a religious cult for whom reprinting content is a kind of sacrament ...)
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    Never mind.

    I found the answer.

    I wonder if a permanent link to the ICEL policy would be helpful both here and over at CCW?

    Just a thought.

    Here's the web address:

    http://www.icelweb.org/PubPolicy.PDF
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    It is, in fact, illegal (or at least lawsuit-possible) to publicly perform protected works without permission.

    However, there is a law that exempts churches from said restriction as long as it is performed as part of a religious service.

    The liturgy is an exception to the law, and it is only an exemption to the performance, not to the making of copies of the scores, recordings, broadcasts, etc.
    Thanked by 4Adam Wood francis CHGiffen Liam
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    (That's what I said)
    Thanked by 2francis Andrew Motyka
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    The liturgy is an exception to the law,

    And the law being an exception to the rights guaranteed under the first amendment.
    Thanked by 2Andrew Motyka barreltone
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    The Latin is PD and Universal.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood ZacPB189
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    (One wonders abiut the status of copies made within the context of liturgy, for instance a religious cult for whom reprinting content is a kind of sacrament ...)


    It could still be made illegal, notwithstanding its role in religious exercise, through a law of general applicability (such as the Copyright Act), see Employment Division v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990). However, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb et seq., expands by statute protection for religious exercise, and may allow the copying (unless a specific RFRA-trumping provision were written into the copyright law). Probably not, though, if their "sacrament" is something like pirating movies or reprinting Harry Potter and selling it.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    The Latin is PD and Universal.

    Not neccesarily. The revised liturgical books, are not PD, for example, nor the Nova Vulgata bible and the revised lectionary.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    I believe the Liber is PD. And all the text for the propers.

    http://imslp.org/wiki/Liber_Usualis_(Gregorian_Chant)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    But NOT the vertical episma.

    You have to pay for those if you want them.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    I have a boatload of free episimas since I don't use them. PM me if you want them.
    Thanked by 3veromary Adam Wood matthewj
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    Adam, that's why in our choir we've elected to replace them with the public-domain emphysema.
    Thanked by 3Adam Wood CHGiffen Andrew Motyka
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    public-domain emphysema

    Do you get that from incense or second-hand smoke?
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    The other thing to consider is fairness: it takes a composer appoximately a week per minute to write music. You are a music director, perhaps: how much are you paid for three weeks of work to prepare a 3 minute anthem? This constant seeking after free music gets irritating after a while. `
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    mrcopper... depending upon complexity of music, some comps may not take long at all... however, i don't charge for the actual time it takes to compose a piece, i charge for the fifty years it took me to be able to compose a piece, even if it takes half an hour.

    as far as free music, i used to give it away to get exposure... now i publish for a small fee. i think it is entirely up to the individual composer.
    Thanked by 1kenstb
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I use good quality free music when it is available. I also buy good quality music when I run across something that fits my needs, although I do spend parish money as wisely as possible. Music that can be used for multiple occasions is definitely worth spending money to get.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    As far as I am concerned, the only music I am interested to perform for the liturgy is all PD anyway (mostly very old). Only modern music I like is Samuel Barbers Adagio. I did find some of the CMAA members works appropriate such as JO's psalm 23 for funerals and Arlene's chanted psalms. (oh, and my friend's (was my trumpet player) Kyrie and Agnus Dei which was quite beautiful). I did use AB's SEP for a few years too but usually improvised an accomp.
  • kenstb
    Posts: 369
    Amen, Francis!!
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    "Do you get that from incense or second-hand smoke?"
    It's a neume that only appears at the end of phrases, and is performed by a noisy intake of breath, preferably within a word.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    Francis, do some division: how long have you lived and how many minutes of music have you written? I suspect a week per minute is very generous!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    mrcopper

    If you are dividing MY TIME ALIVE by every performable minute of music I have composed that's a completely different calculation to the ACTUAL AMOUNT OF TIME SPENT COMPOSING A PERFORMABLE MINUTE of music.

    it takes a composer appoximately a week per minute to write music.


    I have spent hundreds of hours doing other things: performing music, creating artworks, beadworks, woodworks, etc., all of which have also received compensation. So I cannot attribute time spent not composing music to billable composing hours - fair reckoning I suppose.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    That's some pretty good thread drift going on here.

    My question had to do exclusively with reprinting portions of chants or texts in a service booklet. If a composer puts stuff up and available through creative commons, but the text itself is controlled by ICEL (such as with some of the responsorial psalms over at Corpus Christi Watershed), are those of us who use these resources obligated to write to ICEL for permission to use their texts, even though they're already set to music by a composer who has placed them up on a site such as CCW.

    For example, I'm using AOZ's setting of "My God, My God." At the bottom is a lengthy copyright disclaimer. Do I then have to write to ICEL for permission to use this, even though Arlene has already set it and placed it up on the CCW website?

    I'm not interested nor did I intend to get into an argument over fair compensation to composers, etc.
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    http://www.usccb.org/bible/permissions/index.cfm

    For one time use, no permission is necessary. For consistent use, I don't know. It's pretty complicated on the USCCB site.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Just to clarify: the psalm verses in the Lectionary belong to "Confraternity of Christian Doctrine", which is related to USCCB. (Thanks to Andrew for the link above.)

    Psalm antiphons in Lectionary (at least some of them) belong to ICEL. See their website for their copyright policy.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • francis
    Posts: 10,824
    drifting... mea culpa...
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    Chonak's information makes the whole thing sound even more screwy!

    Refrains belong to ICEL, verses belong to USCCB?

    What nonsense!

    (Just my opinion.)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    The verses, like other Lectionary Scripture text, are based on the New American Bible.

    The refrains come from ICEL; they often do not come from the psalm text, and if they do correspond, they often do not match it.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
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