Kyrie XVI & Agnus Dei and Sanctus XVIII
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    Hello All-

    I'd like to know the approx. "age" of the Kyrie XVI and Agnus Dei and Sanctus XVIII. Our schola is using them for Lent and we'll be mentioning the page numbers in the missal where they can find the music before Mass. When we do that, I'd really like to give a brief mention of how wonderful I think it is to connect to our Catholic roots by chanting melodies that are _x_ years old (I don't need exact dates- just give me century even) and perhaps a brief mention about how using this music connects to the universal Church, as well. Trying to foster a love for this stuff, starting w/ some basic education. :-)

    Thanks!
  • benstoxbenstox
    Posts: 23
    In the Liber Usualis it gives some dates for them:
    Kyrie XVI: 11-13th century;
    Sanctus XVIII: 13th century;
    Agnus Dei XVIII: 12th century.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,798
    It's still not clear to me whether the LU dates indicate origin or a particular source. See this thread,for example.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    As far as I know these dates indicate the oldest surviving manuscripts that these chants were taken from. They are all in fact much older but that detail is lost to the mists of time. Chances are that simpler chants are more ancient but this is not a firm certainty.
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    Thanks, everyone! I don't have the Liber Usalis (one my "to own" list) so I really appreciate that info as well as the info that the music is likely much older. This board is great... I know I have so much to learn and if it weren't for this forum, I wouldn't even know that much ;-)

    Happy 1st Sunday of Lent!
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,798
    Aria,
    A hard-copy LU is something to aspire to, but I hope you know about this page already!
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    Thanks, Richard. I appreciate the reminder for that page. I think I've come across it before but haven't looked at it recently and I don't think I realized the LU was there. It's so incredible how much is online... both the treasures and the new stuff (being offered for all via Creative Commons licensing). We are living truly in the perfect time to be able to restore sacred music to the liturgy!
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Unfortunately, the Liber Usualis has some negative associations with "hard-core-traditionalism" so I'm looking to get a Graduale Romanum to hopefully ease the minds of some of the people I work with.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    A liber has those associations? Just give them the number of the most progressive, crazy-out-there, Trinity-denying Prot (heck, even an atheist) who loves chant for its aesthetic...I can almost guarantee you the Liber is going to be the chant book they have. Hope you can tell some of your co-workers to take a chill pill!
    Thanked by 1Richard Mix
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