Victimae paschali laudes - Two Simple Questions
  • David DeavyDavid Deavy
    Posts: 105
    Two simple questions, the answer to which I could not find, in prior forums:

    1) In the OF is the Victimae paschali laudes allowed on Sundays during Easter, after Easter Sunday?

    2) Again in the OF is placement of the Victimae paschali laudes before or after the Alleluia following the Second Reading on those Sundays, after Easter Sunday?

    Thanks.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,473
    1) As a sequence, no. As a hymn or other "Option 4" piece of music - of course.

    2) It is only on Easter Sunday. And, in the OF, it is supposed to be done before the Alleluia.

    Regarding [2]-
    The placement before the Alleluia seems (to me, and some others I know of) to be predicated on the idea that Alleluia is simply a "Gospel Acclamation" which accompanies a Gospel Procession.
    This way of thinking about it suggests that if you are doing a full-blown Gregorian Alleluia from the Graduale, it would make more sense to do it in the traditional order (Sequence AFTER the Alleluia).
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,411
    Sadly, the GIRM, I believe, requires that the sequence be sung before Alleluya, not in its historical position following it. Another bit of liturgical tinkering for which we have the chic 'liturgists' of our time to thank. I have even witnessed (only in Catholic churches) the sequence being spoken rather than sung, which is rather like (actually is as dumb as) announcing on Christmas that 'we will now speak "O Come, All Ye Faithful"' - (astonishing!).

    Also, for those who may somehow manage to put the sequence before Alleluya (full-blown, as Adam says, or otherwise): Alleluya is not repeated after its Verse - one goes directly from Verse to Sequence. It SHOULD BE NOTED, also, that, historically, all the sequences have Alleluyas after their last lines. These Alleluyas are very brief, but vary somewhat from one sequence to another. I have not seen these retained in any of the modern books, and consider this to be the result either of ignorance, willfull change for change's sake, or both. Whenever I sing a sequence I ALWAYS sing its Alleluya at its conclusion. Thus, Alleluya, after all, greets the Gospel. Anyone who can't locate these sequence Alleluyas may send me his or her address and I shall drop them in the mail.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    It is only on Easter Sunday. And, in the OF, it is supposed to be done before the Alleluia.


    Actually, while it is only required on Easter Sunday, it may be done every day of the Octave, including the following Sunday. This fits well with the "week of Sundays" idea that is the Easter Octave.
    Thanked by 9M. Jackson Osborn Spriggo kenstb Liam CHGiffen Ben hilluminar Ally Aristotle Esguerra
  • David DeavyDavid Deavy
    Posts: 105
    Thanks to all,

    Sadly, a small group I lead has been assigned the Third Sunday of Easter so I think it is out as the Sequence.

    Would it be OK, to do after communion?

    Thanks again.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,473
    it may be done every day of the Octave, including the following Sunday.


    Thanks.

    But, OP: notice - not the rest of the season.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,473
    Would it be OK, to do after communion?

    Like as a motet. i don't see any reason why not.
    Thanked by 2Andrew Motyka Ben
  • David DeavyDavid Deavy
    Posts: 105
    No, there are only three of us, all bases so it would just be the chant.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Like as a motet. i don't see any reason why not


    That is, as an extra piece of devotional music after the proper communion; or as a option four: another liturgical chant.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,473
    Right, still. Extra music added after Communion.

    Seems legit to me.
  • David DeavyDavid Deavy
    Posts: 105
    Yes we will be doing the Surréxit Dóminus chant first.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    The singing of a choral work without the congregation after communion is a subject of some controversy. It would be good to review the relevant legislation and perspectives on it and form one's own opinion.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    huh?
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,411
    Dear Colleague Gavin -
    I give you credit for not believing that anthems and motets and some chant are disallowed because the congregation can't sing them. This leaves me somewhat puzzled as to your, um, frame de referahnce. What is the controversy of which you intimate?
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,087
    I think Gavin is thinking specifically of the post-communion song.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Oops, yes, I meant after communion!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/931/communion-meditation-problem/p1

    Here is a discussion here of this issue. It caused not a small amount of controversy.

    To me, the GIRM seems clear that any song immediately following the distribution of communion must be congregational in nature. However, such a restriction also seems to me contrary to sound liturgical principles of the Latin rite, and a rather minor infraction, should someone so infract.

    Form your own conscience, and act accordingly. Just don't act out of ignorance.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
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