Large-Scale Settings of the Mass?
  • JVHandy
    Posts: 3
    Hello! I'm new on these forums. I've been looking for large scale musical settings of the Mass, mainly for listening purposes. I'm already pretty familiar with most settings of the Mass by major classical composers- Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert, Bruckner, Bach, etc. and was wondering if anyone here knew of any other powerful settings by less prominent individuals.

    To be perfectly honest, I'm not especially interested in delicate settings- I'd like to be overwhelmed. I'm imagining something with large choral and potentially instrumental forces, and with an organ, probably works from the late 19th or 20th century. Ideally as well, I would be interested in finding settings that would actually be used in mass, and that are not exclusively theatrical in nature. If anyone here can point me in the direction of something like this I would be incredibly appreciative.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    An a capella curiosity:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missa_sopra_Ecco_sì_beato_giorno
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Asking for a large scale musical Mass settings with large chorus, potentially with an orchestra and organ, that would actually be used in the celebration of Mass is not likely to produce many results.

    I find it difficult to imagine the Beethoven Missa Solmnis or the Bach B minor Mass being used liturgically, and the same goes for the Bruckner's Mass No. 3 in D minor, although his other settings might be work at Mass (but they are not as large in scale).

    This is a little like saying, "I like really big trucks & semis, and I'm familiar with Peterbilt and Mack trucks. Are there any other big trucks, that would be a suitable vehicle for watching a film at the local outdoor movie theater?"

    There are indeed other large scale Mass settings, not all of them accompanied by organ and/or orchestra; however, mayhaps unaccompanied does not suit your musical listening tastes.

    You might try the Frank Martin Mass for Double Choir, which is an a cappella setting, extraordinarly beautiful, and has been used at Mass.

    Much the same could be said of Ralph Vaughan William Mass in G minor, which is also a cappella.

    Thanked by 2MarkThompson BruceL
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Louis Vierne Missa Solemnis for choir and two organs.
    Thanked by 5ClergetKubisz futurefatherz BruceL Aaron eft94530
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,048
    If you're looking for massive forces, there's Franz Biber's 53-voice Missa Salisburgensis (1682), not be confused with the overpowering (some say melodramatic) Missa Sabrinensis by Herbert Howells (1954).

    The six-part Missa Gloria Tibi Trinitas by John Taverner (1490-1545) is very impressive setting which could be done at a liturgy.
    Thanked by 2ZacPB189 JVHandy
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    These are settings of the office for the dead:

    Durufle Requiem (extremely beautiful, but in a soul inspiring way)
    Mozart Requiem
    Faure Requiem (this ones got some huge moments)
    Verdi Requiem (this one has some HUGE moments)
    You named most of the big classical Masses. You might try some of the more ancient settings, as they can be powerful also, such as Josquins Missa de Nostre Dame, or Victorias Missa O Magnum Mysterium. These, however were conceived for chorus alone.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    John Taverner's Missa Gloria tibi Trinitas is one of the truly great works of the early English Renaissance. I had the fortune of singing it several times about 20 years ago, once in the Cathedral of St. Matthew the Apostle, in Washington, D.C.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • JVHandy
    Posts: 3
    Wow, thank you all for your responses! These settings are beautiful and thoroughly impressive, accompanied and otherwise.
  • Unda_Maris
    Posts: 53
    JV -- I'll add a few mass settings that I think could be of interest to you:

    "Missa Festiva" -- Flor Peeters (pub. by Schwann) Scored for SATTB voices and organ.
    Recordings also available of this mass.

    "Mass in Ancient Style" -- J. Langlais (SATB-organ ad lib.) Pub. in France, and still available. (Fine recording by "Cantores Dei" available)

    "Missa Festiva" -- A. Gretchaninov (pub. Arista) SATB & Organ. (Recording also available.)

    Hope these suggestions are helpful.
    Thanked by 1JVHandy
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    Interesting you should mention the Bach b minor and its unsuitibility for the liturgy. Do you remember that during world youth day, pope Benedict chose that very mass for the main celebration.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    It's still difficult to imagine the B minor Mass at a regular, indoor liturgy. As sacred, inspired and glorious as the music is, my only experience is in concert performances. A world youth day performance is hardly what you would expect to find in a Sunday celebrations of Mass, even in a large city. And I doubt that the cost of mounting such a performance for a regular liturgy (no "paid admission") would be within the ordinary music budget of any parish church and probably not of any average cathedral.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Marc-Antoine Charpentier's Messe de Minuit, although it is, of course, planned for Christmas.

    Here's a question for you: to be overwhelmed, can your parish church assist in the overwhelming effect by having suitable accoustics, or merely by being underwhelming, with many amplifiers?

  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    The Charpentier (whom I otherwise like) has always impressed me as shallow ditty music unfit for something so grand as one of the two most profound solemnities in the Church's year. More fitting, I should say, would be something more Monteverdian or Gabrielian (Not to mention Tallis). Not these charming little folk ditties. Charpentier should have stuck to composing Te Deums.
  • Paul_D
    Posts: 133
    Herbert Howells, Missa Sabrinensis. Stunning. Massive-sounding orchestra, choir, soloists. Ecstatic singing by the soloists. Originally thought to be un-performable. (Chandos)

    James MacMillan, Mass (2000). You'll need the sub-woofer. (Hyperion)
    Thanked by 2canadash JVHandy
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    Mozart's "Coronation" Mass is certainly do-able for an important parish event. I used it for the dedication of the new church. YMMV on the term "large-scale."
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    Well, if the Vedi Requiem merits mention, I'll throw in the Berlioz Grande Messe des Morts, (although it is in nowise suitable for actual liturgical use.)
    The tuba mirum in the Dies Irae is enough to scare a sinner silly.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Thanx to FrKrisman, I am enthralled by Menotti's Missa Tu Pulchritudo. Huge and beautiful, and we'll do it someday!
  • NathanReich
    Posts: 31
    Widor's Mass Op. 36 for two choirs and two organs. I've sung the Kyrie before and found it overpowering. I think that the organ parts could be consolidated into one if need be.

    http://javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/5/5c/IMSLP102778-PMLP210240-Messe_Widor.pdf

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_agETRcS6s
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Aaron
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    That was AWESOME! Thank you for posting that!
  • ChoirpartsChoirparts
    Posts: 147
    dad29 mentioned...
    "Mozart's "Coronation" Mass is certainly do-able for an important parish event. I used it for the dedication of the new church. YMMV on the term "large-scale."

    JVHandy: If you or anyone decides to do the Coronation Mass....
    this might make it easier....

    Soprano Link: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9SD3GZ81Vdgh5LeVgu-NncPy-xLN10to

    Alto Link: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9SD3GZ81Vdgs47QbTIgpkf9grCw_cW13

    Tenor Link: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9SD3GZ81Vdi1bpscxlkEWG3d3HdmBiFG

    Bass Link: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9SD3GZ81VdhyayHMT7nJlPILwZHABdH1

    Score Link: http://www2.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart

    edit.....links updated
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Would anyone be willing write a parody Mass based on Tallis' 'Spem in alium'? (The 'Benedictus' could be pared down to 20 voices.)

    (Purple/Violet text.)
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    In all seriousness, there are many impressive Renaissance works. I especially adore the Masses of the Franco-Flemish School -- look into the music of Mathurin Forestier. The Chicago a Capella have a good recording of two of his Masses.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    There are nice settings of masses for double choir, e.g. the Missa octava by Hans Leo Haßler. I am not sure whether that's overwhelming enough, but it is definitely liturgy-fit, since the only record on youtube is from a Mass in Austria (with one chorus being executed by brass instead of human voices).
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    Messe Solennelle by Jean Langlais
  • Nicholas_Will
    Posts: 56
    I second the Langlais "Messe Solennelle." One of his finest works.

    Anything by Rheinberger is also worth listening to.
  • Gabrielli
    Posts: 1
    Many years ago I enjoyed singing the little known John Knowles Paine "Mass in D" with the NEC Chorus conducted by Gunther Schuller. There is a good recording with the St. Louis Symphony conducted by Schuller.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    In my choir, we sometimes called this the "Be Afraid - Be Very Afraid" Sanctus:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECfP1shIurA
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Be not afraid
    Langlais's not with you
    You need not fear
    He is now at rest.
    Thanked by 1futurefatherz
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Dunno, KLS, those brass intro/interludes in 6/8 are a little sing-songy, doncha think? I mean, why do these cath-licks always have to frolic in triple meter?
    I wonder where Dr. Kwasniewski would place this in his taxonomy of "beautiful?"
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    It doesn't seem be-afraidish to me! More like Langlais-couldn't-make-up-his-mind-how- he-was-going-to-proceed,-so we-start-over-and-try-it-againish.
    Thanked by 2futurefatherz francis
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
  • JVHandy
    Posts: 3
    Does anyone here recognize the music being sung at this mass? The video quality is not the best and the editing/camerawork is very choppy, but I certainly like what I hear. Starts at 1:26.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Aw don't pick on it because it's 20th century and sounds slightly atonal
  • NathanReich
    Posts: 31
    Durufle's Messe Cum Jubilo Op. 11

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X0i_K8bAZo
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Maurice Durufle was a genius.
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    Does anyone know of an arrangement of the Widor Mass for two choirs and two organs consolidated for only one organ?
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,191
    Yes, the Widor Mass has several edition consolidated. Search is your good friend. There is even one of IMSLP.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
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