Instrumental music during Lent
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    I wonder what some of your thoughts are about organ or instrumental music during Lent.
    I prefer to follow the (what seems to me) to be preferred directives that the organ should be only used to support singing.
    But I am being required to play organ music during the distribution of the ashes.
    Comments?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I know a certain John Cage piece that would be particularly appropriate. I'm not sure if you can find it scored for organ, though...
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Sing the chants with organ accompaniment for distribution of ashes? I am using the ones by Richard Rice in the Simple Choral Gradual. Last year, the cantor sang the verses twice, but it worked out well.
  • Padster
    Posts: 40
    Do what your parish priest requires. These directives you mention are intended as a guide. Only on Holy Thursday/Good Friday is it really essential to forego solo organ music before and after Mass. Listen to your priest, not, (with all due respect) a bunch of people on the internet whom you haven't met before.

    Best wishes,
    Padster
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Of course, you have to do what your pastor requests. There was a time when my pastor asked me to play softly to cover noise during offertory and distribution of ashes. He decided a couple of years later that the GIRM did not allow solo playing during Lent. Either way was fine with me.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Of course, do what your pastor requires, but legally, you should not be playing during lent except to support singing (ie, accompanying pieces and brief introductions to them), and even then, if you don't need them to sing, don't.

    Here's the direct citation from the missal:

    "In Lent the playing of the organ and musical instruments is allowed only in order to support the singing. Exceptions, however, are Laetare Sunday (fourth Sunday of Lent), Solemnities, and feasts"
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Yeah, I love that "pink" Sunday - which the pastor reminds me is rose, not pink. I know that - LOL.
    Thanked by 2Ben Blaise
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    My pastor is pretty radical, and when I suggested an entirely a capella Lent, he was thrilled! So this is the second year with no organ at all from Ash Wednesday to Holy Thursday.

    My personal joy aside, I think many people miss the opportunity use Lent as a time to foster congregational singing. If you have to play organ/piano/guitar to keep something from falling apart, fine. But the beauty of the unaccompanied human voice is a great treasure.
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  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    very true, rouge63. I once heard this adage on this forum, which I think has great merit (not an exact quote):

    If you never accompany singing, try it once and a while.
    If you always accompany singing, skip it once and a while.
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  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    @Adam wood

    Here's that piece you were thinking of. This is also what I'm doing for my prelude this Sunday (maybe next sunday as well). I worked on it for a while, and I was able to adapt it quite well for the organ.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTEFKFiXSx4
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Ben, your phrasing is superb!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    But can we write it for just manuals, for organists who aren't confident with their feet?

    And don't forget the Hammond registrations.
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  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I can arrange that for organ for you if you'd like, pedals optional. I once did it with an entire symphony orchestra...but by myself.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    The following Hammond registrations are guaranteed to work:
    upper: 00 0000 000
    lower: 00 0000 000
    vibrato (optional)

    Other options are possible, provided the keys are not pressed.
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  • Padster
    Posts: 40
    I see kindergarten has let out early again today.......

    Best wishes,
    Padster
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    We've gone from RECTO TONO to SINE SONO.
    Thanked by 4CharlesW Ben ClergetKubisz Adam Wood
  • SteveBosworth
    Posts: 34
    I see that ya'll are much better musicians than I. I really had a difficult time with the rhythm and tempo and I couldn't even figure out a decent organ registration so I just gave up. I guess it doesn't matter after all. The PiP's say I play too loudly anyway!
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  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    We've gone from RECTO TONO to SINE SONO.


    Isn't that how the propers are performed at most parishes?
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  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Only because they lack my book...
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    If you never accompany singing, try it once and a while.
    If you always accompany singing, skip it once and a while.


    FWIW, that was me.
    (In a thread about whether accompanying chant or not was better.)
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    For a small fee I could sell you the organ arrangement I have made of the Cage piece.
    For only a small emolument I would also consent to play it for your parish...
    Curious to know, OP, does your diocesan O of W have a stance on instumental work during Lent?

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the world)
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    For what it's worth, I do play preludes and postludes to Stations of the Cross, but in my mind those are a different category since they are a devotion rather than a "liturgy". I'm happy for an alternate viewpoint, though, as this is admittedly conjecture.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    Stations are devotions. They are not governed by liturgical norms for the Mass, but by spirit, custom, professionalism and good taste.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Of course the organ can be legally used outside of the Mass, but it seems to be rather against the spirit to play it for devotions, or for Mass prelude/postlude for that matter (though it's explicitly allowed for benediction, right? I thought I read that somewhere...)
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I never use instrumental music during Lent and even take that a step further and only use 8' stops when I do use the organ for hymns. Introductions are very brief and only on the melody line when possible.

    This year, we are chanting the Ordinary (ICEL) unaccompanied.

    As always, do what your Pastor asks, but it can't hurt to innocently point out the GIRM just to make sure he is aware that he is making a local pastoral judgement directly in opposition with recommendations put forth in the Missal. Many priests are so unfamiliar with the documents that they don't even realize they are not following sound recommendations from the Vatican. I typically do this with my Pastor, and frequently am reminded that after the Council, a lot of authority was transferred to the Bishops and Pastors instead of Rome. As long as he is aware he is making such a local pastoral judgement, I rest a bit more easily.
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  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Many priests are so unfamiliar with the documents that they don't even realize they are not following sound recommendations rules from the Vatican.


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  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Many priests people are so unfamiliar with the documents arrogant that they don't even realize think it matters that they are not following sound recommendations doing stupid things
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  • Padster
    Posts: 40
    Ben, with all due respect you sound like a lawyer. Is law your profession perchance?

    I pointed these 'rules' out to my priest last year. He still wants solo organ music during Lent. End of subject.

    As an aside, on a whim after reading this thread the other day, I decided to dig my heels in and go against my priest because I am not 'legal'. I decided to play nothing during Lent, as per the rules. I scrapped all the music I had planned for the season. Then I opened The Imitation of Christ completely at random and landed on the chapter called 'Vain Judgements': "who art thou to be afraid of a mortal man?" and such like.

    The music has been re-instated.......

    Best wishes,
    Padster
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Not a lawyer, just an obedient son of the church.

    When the church says the organ is not to be used at a certain time, that's not a recommendation, that's a rule. This isn't a situation of "these or similar words," and it's not a situation where an escape clause is given. If someone can find a clause to the contrary, I'll be the first to accept it, but I haven't found one yet. Ergo, no instrumentals during lent.

    Rule:
    In Lent the playing of the organ and musical instruments is allowed only in order to support the singing (corollary: it is not allowed when not supporting singing) (GIRM 313)

    Recommendation:
    It is a praiseworthy practice for the chalice to be covered with a veil, which may be either the color of the day or white. (GIRM 118)


    If your priest or musical superior (if you are just an organist/cantor not MD) instructs you to disregard that, obviously listen to him, and the act is now his disobedience, not yours. You have to feed yourself. But all the same, it is disobedience. It's a rule, not a recommendation. It's not complicated.
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  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    and the act is now his disobedience not yours


    Exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks for the help!
    And yes, if I weren't in such a difficult position in my current Parish, the words rule and recommendation would be a bit more clear. Unfortunately, most people scoff if I point out a rule and they dismiss it.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • Padster
    Posts: 40
    Actually Ben, I give my time and talent freely to the Church. I don't have to feed myself. So I suppose I could walk away.

    Incidentally, I hope you guys aren't playing any hymn intros during Lent. You'll have to count everyone in. I hope you aren't playing during distribution of ashes or at communion either. Or during Requiem Masses. I do hope you'll stick to your guns and refuse to play any pieces of music requested by grieving relations.

    Best wishes,
    Disobedient Padster

  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    DP

    Romans would understand and smile. (And shrug over the northern Europeans.)
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  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Padster,

    Of course if you are using accompanied hymns, a simple intro is needed as a basic function of supporting the congregational singing. That being said, you're right, at the Mass where I will be assisting, we will not be using any instruments during distribution of ashes. What is so hard to believe about that?

    Requiem Masses....if it's supporting singing, no problem. I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

    Seriously, no need to be smug. It's not like I'm making this stuff up. Again, it's not your disobedience, it's your pastor's (unless you are encouraging him to do so...).
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    CharlesW,

    My own pastor is also quite fond of reminding us that the vestments are rose, not (girly) pink. :)
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    No hymn intro for us at our Anglican Use parish on Ash Wednesday for processional. Chanted until the priest reaches the altar and invites the people formally to the Lenten season.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Why is it that 'rose' vestments are 90% (probably more) of the time a shamelessly she-she shade of pink, or an awful (really awful) salmon colour. True rose is nearly always to be found only in Anglican and Anglican Use parishes. What (somebody?) is this craze for effeminate peenk and tasteless, tacky salmon?
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    Of course, you should accede to the pastor's wishes, but only after you have politely informed him of what the rubrics are. Very often the citation of chapter and verse settles a question.
    On the other hand, a situation I experienced: the pastor said black vestments are forbidden. I asked politely, could you cite me chapter and verse of this prohibition? He said, you know I cannot do that.
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I will play intros to the hymns and accompany the Rice chants for distribution of ashes. My choir can speak in unintelligible tongues and sing pitches unknown to man when left unaccompanied for any length of time. The intro sets up the tempo and pitch for them to come in properly. Let the old ladies who object smother themselves in their lavender scented hankies. LOL.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    Ben, Padster is trolling you.
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  • donr
    Posts: 971
    We will be singing as much as possible A Capella this year.
    Included in this is the Mass Ordinary, the Antiphons and hymns that aren't too hard.
    I will give the a starting pitch and off we go.
    Its the first time I'm trying this so wish us luck. Rehearsal went very well so I'm expecting good results.

    If we were using organ or other approved instruments (what ever that means) we would be using it sparingly. A very simple intro, with just simple chords for support.
    I believe the intent of the rule is to not do solos or embellishments. There should be a change in the way music and Liturgy is perceived during this time of year.
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    I asked politely, could you cite me chapter and verse of this prohibition? He said, you know I cannot do that.

    When I used to have to attend "Liturgy Committee" meetings, a person who had decided to set himself against me complained to one of the priests about me afterwards, (not know he and I were friends,) , "I hate it, she always has a REASON," as if that were somehow marks against the opinion or judgement I had offered.
    When The People In Charge finally realize that this should not be about what one"likes" things can change for the better.
    That said, The People In Charge are The People In Charge, and after one has educated them to whatever extent one can, one does as told.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
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  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    A couple years ago I sent a dubium to the USCCB about the question of organ music during Lent, specifically in regards Preludes & Postludes. This is the response I got back from the Associate Director of the Secretariat of Divine Worship (my emphasis, italic):

    Thank you for your email. While we don't want to become too legalistic in such matters, I think an authentic spirit of the GIRM paragraph you cite would advocate avoiding preludes and postludes during Lent.

    It is part of creating the atmosphere for the Mass and for the whole spirit of Lent.
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  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    While we don't want to become too legalistic in such matters

    Sums up every problem with the Catholic Church ever. (Said with an ever so light shade of purple.)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Glad the usccb agrees, Salieri. It's only common sense to avoid them.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I don't play preludes and postludes during Advent, either. There is no regulation forbidding it that I know of. The penitential aspects of Advent have been lost in this culture, so I don't do any music I believe to be contrary to the spirit of the season. Too many seem to think Advent is some giant pre-Christmas party.
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  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    You're just cranky that they don't have Christmas Ale down where you are.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Musicam Sacram is clear about Advent, Lent, and Requiem Masses.

    If you're able, follow it.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    We have plenty of Christmas Ale. It's when we run out that I really get cranky. ;-)
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    For some reason Rome can stand on its head trying to get everyone to understand that the sky is blue, and yet people only accept it when the USCCB also tells them it's blue.
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  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    Honestly, what's the big deal? Follow the GIRM isn't all that difficult, for goodness sakes. No preludes and postludes? Silence is golden, especially during Lent for times of peaceful reflection. And chanting Attende Domine during the distribution of ashes is beautiful and very prayerful. Chanting ANYTHING during Lent is time for peaceful reflection. After all, isn't Lent the time of year when we contemplate the seriousness of sin and remember Christ's journey in the desert? And, remember, the contemplative, quietness of Lent gives way to the joyful triumphant sounds of the organ come Easter.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    My only caution: don't let chanting a cappella become overly associated with penitential seasons. It's a hard ghetto to break out of.
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