• ...
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    If I were closer, I'd love to!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,211
    Larisa, can you specify the date? I'd forward this to someone, but it wouldn't make sense without that info.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    And best wishes for your marriage and your musical efforts.
  • Hi there! The date is 3/8/14 at 2:30pm. Thanks!
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,471
    it was instrumental (get it? get it?!) to my conversion


    You should become a regular forum member. This sort of thing is the primary reason some of us are here.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Adam is right. You'll fit in around here.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,795
    Congratulations and good luck!

    My first modest suggestion is to use the edit button to add the words "in Northern Virginia" to the subject line. My second suggestion would be to bring in a gigging musician, even from a production of Carmen, and hire them to sing the propers: "bobble-head cantor waving her arms around" sounds more like someone already corrupted by a church job than a serious artist. I'll now don asbestos, "gig" being a dirty word to some people around here.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,507
    I'd fit the bill and happen to be free that day. If you're still looking, please feel free to email me at kpluth at gmail dot com.
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    In case it was unclear, we use purple text to designate sarcasm on the forum. Welcome!
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,471
    Also, in case it was unclear, Yanke and I were referring to your use of terrible puns.
    Thanked by 2Ben bkenney27
  • I would be happy to oblige. Feel free to send me a message here, if the position hasn't already been filled!
  • Lots of great feedback here! Thank you all so much! Thanks also for humoring my slightly off-key sense of humor. It could use some fine-tuning (just like the bobble-head cantor in most cases!).
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    ^ Oh, yeah. This one will be kicking around for a while.
  • I am originally from Virginia and live closeby, I know Nova like the back of my hand, I'd be happy to assist in any way, including singing. I have an especially strong interest in helping provide beautiful traditional catholic music at latin rite catholic weddings and funerals as this is one of the main outlets lay people have where they can at their own discretion choose to enforce a rule of genuine authentic catholic music being used in the liturgy as the councils and fathers of the church intended.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Anybody know if Jon Eason (Yurodivi) is still down south? Georgeous voice.
    Thanked by 1JDE
  • I have changed my mind about my interest in participating.

    I realized afterwards that Wednesday, March 5 is the beginning of Lent this year. Historically only protestants performed weddings durent Lent. Historically at the edict of Nantes protestants in France were urged to respect the rules of Catholics and not perform weddings during lent. Therefore I must respect the rules of the Catholic Church and avoid all level of scandal such an occasion presents.

    I am one of those people who really does live in the 1580's...and in the timeless eternal truthes of the faith. Sorry for the mistake of my first post.
  • I apologize for scandalizing you.
    Thanked by 2bkenney27 Adam Wood
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,211
    Here's a column by Fr. Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university, in which he states that there is no universal rule prohibiting the sacrament of matrimony during Lent. http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur309.htm

    Thanked by 1bkenney27
  • Thanks, I'm a stickler for rules even while acknowledging the that ecclesiastical economia (dispensation) may render them inapplicable. I imagine having a wedding at that time is based on either an extreme neccessity or out of ignorance of the rules. Perhaps your advice for wedding dates may have come from a lax cleric. Or one trying to help someone in a difficult situation.

    Coincidently, in the 1580's a Danish composer created a collection of motets called "Musica Nuptialis" which I think were based on the texts of the chant propers for a nuptial mass.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartholomaeus_Stockmann

    http://www.amazon.com/Stockmann-Musica-Nuptialis/dp/B000VFS380/ref=tmm_msc_title_0 you can listen to them here, they are very beautiful.

    score: http://www.worldcat.org/title/lejlighedsvaerker-gelegenheitswerke-occasional-works/oclc/64435003&referer=brief_results

    For english language music, the propers by Fr. Columba Kelly are hard to outdue. They are extremely beautiful and easy enough to remember by someone who is musically inclined. However I do not think they all line up exactly with the latin texts. I do not know why that is. I am still learning about the propers for weddings. http://www.saintmeinradmusic.org/downloads/Nuptial_Mass_Booklet.pdf

    I have a feeling that more traditional english chant propers exist (as far as matching mroe precisely the latin texts of the 16th c.), but I do not yet know where they are located.
  • This is one of those areas like Pope Francis washing a moslem womans feet during the Holy Thursday Lavabo or having cremation at funerals, They are either common abuses that are done regardless of being "not allowed" or they are "allowed" but heavily discouraged as lacking prudence. How many experimental ideas from the post-vatican II period have proven successful? Why have a traditional mass with traditional music in a time when it is traditionally forbidden? Is it the historic Roman Catholic Church teachings we ascribe to - or the recent innovations of the Protestant Episcopal Church of America and other modernists that we are ascribing to? Like the ones that want a high mass but with a woman priest doing the hokey pokey, a little bit of the old and a little bit of the new, whatever is convenient...and charming.

    Nevertheless, according to Bishop Jaime Soto:

    5. Wedding Masses may not be celebrated during the Easter Triduum, on Sundays of Lent, Ash Wednesday, or during Holy Week. Marriages may take place at other times during Lent according to the proper liturgical norms and provisions, but it is contrary to the penitential spirit of the season to have elaborate weddings or lavish receptions.


    I won't say anymore except that consistency is a good thing to have.
    Modern music for a modern church. Traditional music for a traditional church.
    lex credend lex orandi, the world conforms to the church, the church isnt ment to conform to the ways of the world.

    I hope you have a nice wedding anyway...
    I apologize if my views appear to be "holier than the Pope".
    I only want the best for everybody. In my life I have found that what appears as a harder challenge is in the long term actually something that makes life easier.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,211
    Chris, if there is a current canon or liturgical norm forbidding weddings during Lent, can you please document it? On the face of things, Fr. McNamara is probably better informed about the rules than you and I.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,471
    Am I the only one who is assuming that Chris is being, at least mildly, humorous?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    Definitely "mildly" humorous. Slandering the hokey pokey is reason enough to go to war.
    Thanked by 1Jani
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    As the old story goes, the funeral of the inventor of the hokey pokey lasted 4 hours. They kept putting his right leg in the casket, he kept putting his right leg out....
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • The New Church Law on Matrimony (1921)
    By Joseph Julius Charles Petrovits, p. 371

    CHAPTER X.

    TIME AND PLACE OF MARRIAGE

    (Canon 1108-Canon 1109)

    I. The Time of Marriage 524

    Marriage may be contracted on any day of the year. The solemn blessing of the nuptials is forbidden from the first Sunday of Advent to Christmas Day inclusively and from Ash Wednesday to Easter Sunday inclusively. The Ordinaries of places however heeding the liturgical laws may permit the solemn nuptial blessing even on the above mentioned days provided there is a just cause and provided they admonish the spouses to abstain from too much display. As regards the time at which marriage may be contracted the new law does not introduce any change from the former discipline. While the general law permits marriages on any day of the ecclesiastical year a particular custom in vogue in a certain locality may prohibit them at certain times This conclusion is justified by the decision rendered by the Sacred Congregation of Propaganda.

    525. A departure of signal consequence from the former discipline is noted in the new legislation with regard to the nuptial blessing In the past for a just reason the Ordinary could permit the celebration of the Mass even in forbidden times but it was not within his power to authorize the nuptial blessing on those days. The period of forbidden time in the ante Tridentine discipline comprehended almost twice as many days as it did subsequently. The present legislation has reduced it to still fewer days and limited the period to the two main seasons of penance namely Advent and Lent. The forbidden time runs from the midnight of the first Sunday of Advent to the midnight of the Feast of the Nativity and from the midnight of Ash Wednesday to the midnight of Easter Sunday. The forbidden time is a period during which the solemn nuptial blessing should not be given. The prohibition contained in the new Code is not absolute as it was in the past but only relative obliging the priest and the Ordinary under pain of mortal sin unless there is a just cause to dispense from the general law. As regards the justness of the cause the judgment must always proceed from the Ordinary nor may a pastor assume the right to render a decision in the matter and to act on his own initiative without consulting the Ordinary of the place.

    The insistence that marriages contracted by Catholics should be accompanied by the solemn nuptial blessing shows the ardent desire of the Church to benefit her members by the graces it imparts for the precise purpose of this blessing is to give that particular supernatural aid of which the newly wedded stand most in need. It is for this reason that the new law does not require a grave cause even a just cause would warrant the decision of the Ordinary to impart the solemn blessing in forbidden time. Such iusta causa would be present whenever the parties cannot without inconvenience or scandal postpone their nuptials till the end of the prohibited period. If the favor of having their nuptials blessed is granted to them the assisting priest must observe the liturgical laws relating to the nuptial blessing and the parties should be forewarned not to indulge in a display of worldliness and frivolity which would be in conflict with the spirit of the holy season.

    527. Should the Ordinary permit the nuptial blessing in forbidden time the commemoration of the nupturientium may be made sub unica conclusione with the prayer of the feast on Christmas Day and on Resurrection Sunday. The Congregation of Rites decreed that by the nuptial blessing are meant the special prayers found in the Missal and said during the Mass over the nupturientes kneeling at the altar. According to canon 1108 the Ordinary for a just cause may permit that nuptial blessing in the closed or forbidden time but with the restriction Salvis legibus liturgicis. In other words the nuptial blessing thus permitted may be given with the Missa pro Sponso et Sponsa if the liturgical laws permit that Mass on a certain day otherwise the blessing would have to be given with the Mass of the day. Should the Ordinary of the place ex iusta causa permit the solemn nuptial blessing in forbidden time the votive Mass for the spouses may be said any day except Sundays and Holy Days of obligation the feasts of the first and the second class the privileged octaves of the first and the second order the privileged ferias and the vigils of the Nativity Epiphany and Pentecost.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    That new church law is apparently no longer new. It surprised me too when someone was married in my parish during Lent. I was told those old restrictions on marriage don't apply any more. Anyone remember Banns of Marriage? That one went by the wayside as well.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    melofluent, thanks for the compliment. I am in Atlanta as full-time director of music for a huge Catholic parish. I have a choir of 50, a children's choir of 16 or so, and supervise directors of two other ensembles. It is an AWESOME opportunity, especially considering that not too long ago I was considering getting out of church music altogether. It is truly a Sign From God if I have ever seen one.

    Soon I will have a recording to post of Joseph Willcox Jenkins' "Of the Father's Love Begotten" from our most recent Midnight Mass.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,211
    Marriage banns are now up to each bishops' conference, per canon 1067, and the US bishops have decided not to require them. However, some parishes have maintained them as a pastoral practice, in order to encourage people to think about the sacrament of matrimony and the duties attendant to it.
    Thanked by 2Ben BruceL
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Mine still does.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    I haven't seen them in my parish in around 30 years. Interesting that some still have them.