Lauds and the Liber Usualis
  • Jamie
    Posts: 40
    Sorry for sounding like a complete newbie, but I'm only starting to become familiar with the Office in the Extraordinary Form.

    Is there no Order for the Office of Lauds in the Liber Usualis? I can only find the order of Lauds for Feasts, and still it is very confusing (i.e. there is no chant music, only text). If it is in the Liber, where can someone tell me? In the same way I can see Sunday at Vespers, Monday at Compline etc. but No Lauds! Why is that?

    Is there a seperate book that should be used for Lauds? I notice that alongside the Mass Propers, the antiphons for Lauds are in the Liber, but I can't find the actual Office of Lauds itself! Help me!

    Many thanks!
  • The Liber Usualis is not intended to be a complete book for the entire yearly Office. As the introduction says, it contains only "Lauds for Feasts of the First Class."

    The book you want is the Antiphonale Romanum (1912 version, which will serve for most of your purposes, conveniently available here).

    Incidentally, as long as you are using the Liber, there is "chant music," not "only text," for the lauds that are actually included. For an example, let's look at the Epiphany. It says, "AT LAUDS. Antiphons of Second Vespers, p. 463." So, referring back to the order for LAUDS OF FEASTS on p. 221, you would sing the Deus in adjutorium, then the first antiphon from p. 463 (Ante luciferum), then the first psalm on p. 221 to the tone of the first antiphon (tone II, p. 114), then repeat the antiphon; and so on for all five antiphons and psalms. Next follows the Chapter, which AT LAUDS for the Epiphany tells you is "Surge, p. 464." Then follows the hymn O sola magnarum. Next, the antiphon, Hodie caelesti, for the Canticle of Zachary follows; the verses of the canticle are given on p. 223, and are sung to the relevant psalm tone (in this case, VIII). For this canticle the intonation formula is repeated with every verse, and if you wish you may use the solemn tones, as provided for the Magnificat at pp. 213ff. The antiphon is then repeated. Next a Domine exaudi and the prayer Deus, qui hodierna die, which you are told is found on p. 459. Last, the conclusion, as given on p. 223.
    Thanked by 2StimsonInRehab Jamie
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,765
    The Liber Usualis is not intended to be a complete book for the entire yearly Office.


    Of course it is also not intended as a complete book of the Mass Propers!

    A Graduale Romanum and the Antiphonale are both invaluable to sing the Mass and Divine Office for the Vetus Ordo. A Nocturnale is handy if you want to sing Matins, but the Liber Usualis has Matins for most of the days you would want to sing them.
    Thanked by 1Jamie
  • Jamie
    Posts: 40
    You guys have helped me out a lot here, thank you!
  • You might also like to know that while the LU goes out of its way to make vespers easy to sing (e.g. it points all the psalms for you, and so forth), it was intentional that this is not generally done for Lauds and the Hours "since these are generally sung by more experienced Choirs".

  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,765
    This link is useful for those new to the Divine Office (EF).

    http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl

    N.B. We 'should' use the "Rubrics 1960" option, but many of us use the Traditional version "Divino Afflatu". Note the "1960 New Calendar" is NOT the modern Liturgy of the Hours.

    I should also point out that the Historical options for the Office have the revised Hymn texts not the original Hymn texts. This site does have a few errors in the texts etc. they are being corrected but there is still some way to go (I would not worry about this the Liber Usualis has a few errors as well!).
  • francis
    Posts: 10,783
    I found this archival page and am wondering if there is a website like the divinumofficium site but includes the gregorian notation so one can just chant the entire office without a book (or flipping pages). If not, is there a resource that does? Any other suggestions?
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    As far as I know, to chant Lauds from online resources, one would have to use the Antiphonale Romanum (1912) for the chants while referring to the 1960 breviary to make sure of the order of things.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,783
    hmmmm... well, maybe I will build the website. (and an app to match?)

    Jonathan:

    I downloaded that file earlier today. Will see how this goes. Is the 1960 breviary online?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,232
    As a PDF? Obviously the text is on Divinum Officium...

    I have no technical skills, but this is something that would be much appreciated.

    It would be nice if it included the Divino Afflatu order as well, in time. You would need a the preces, comemorations at the major hours, and a different order of the psalter in Lent due to the extra psalm at Prime. Sometimes the collects change due to the Pian changes to the Mass propers.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,232
    First, the hours are not so rigid. It just so happens we do things like sleep after Compline, but all of the hours need sanctifying regardless. This allows for the traditional Lenten anticipation of the hours ,beginning on the first Sunday, as well as praying the hours entirely during the Triduum, instead of skipping hours (Vespers and Compline and then Paschal Matins...).

    Why is only one hour of the day hours required in the LOTH? It’s so short as to be a joke.

    I pray None, usually, due to my schedule, but I do Sunday Terce and sometimes Sext instead of None during the week. I like to get Vespers in, rarely Lauds. I don’t do Prime or Matins, and I love Sunday and festal Compline. Something more or less like that is what a layman or laywoman can get in at first.

    I think families singing Compline is one of the best things ever.

    Pre-1911 Roman Compline never changed as well, and it had an extra short psalm. The LOTH is woefully impoverished at Compline, but legally one can use Sunday (which one to use is complicated!) more often so it can be memorized.

    Choosing which office to say is tough. The LOTH is “up-to-date,” which is a huge obsession in certain quarters, but its flaws in regards to tradition are self-evident, e.g. the psalter, even if one thinks it is more user-friendly. The 1960 office is the one generally used by clerics, but Matins is sometimes nonsensical on Sundays due to the edits of John XXIII, and when 7 September is Sunday, the Ember Days are an extra week week after Holy Cross. It also lacks the classic Eastertide feasts, includes St. Joseph the Worker instead of St. Joseph as patron of the universal church, and gives short shrift to Apostles and Evangelists. It also has the new Holy Week, and thus Easter has no first Vespers nor Matins, the office of the historical hour of the Resurrection. It feeds the mentality that the Mass trumps the office entirely, which is absurd for a number of reasons, including that Good Friday has no consecration.

    The St. Lawrence Press publishes an ordo for the 1939 rubrics. It has to use the new psalter of Pius X, but save for the issues I mentioned, most days line up to the 1962 calendar. There was a diurnal published for the modified 1954 rubrics with the Vulgate psalms, but it is impossible to find. You usually have to get an older breviary to find the Vulgate at an affordable cost. I don’t mind not being a great Latinist. D.O. has the English. I can translate some of it, but I try not to do too much so as to focus on pure prayer. Hence, I avoid Matins.

    On that note, the Office of Readings, which Marshall likes, is completely different in character from Matins.

    The Benedictine office is most intact–though they too had to adopt the calendar changes– since it has the traditional hymns and its historic psalter. The lack of the Nunc Dimittis at Compline is usually a turn-off for most people.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,765
    This is beyond my coding skills but could we not use this,
    http://gregobase.selapa.net
    with the code used by this,
    http://bbloomf.github.io/jgabc/propers.html

    To produce booklets for the Divine Office... I agree that it would be very handy to not only produce 1962 versions but Divino Afflatu, Gregobase also has the Dominican and Monastic books as well

    N.B. When I get some free time I will look into arranging to have the 1949 Antiphonal and the Nocturnale added to Gregobase.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,783
    my idea is to create a website very similar to divinumofficium but it would be in Gregorian notation with English (small type) below the Latin. It would also have an audio counterpart for those who want to learn it.

    Here is an interesting piece.

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/11/divino-afflatu-centennial-iii-centenary.html?m=1
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    @Matthew

    Couple of points. For the mid-day Office, I find the opposite. The Office is too long for a mid-day office. The psalmody can equal or exceed Vespers on some days (on some days, Vespers is so short as to almost be a "minor hour"). As a fellow oblate friend of mine says, it's like taking out a loan to consolidate your debts. It may seem like fewer payments, but takes just as much money to pay off (especially sung). In any event, praying the other hours is possible using the Gradual Psalms in an annex after Compline in the LOTH. I do so in outside of summer (when I'm more active), as I mostly am at home (retired), and the hours coincide with the time to put another log or two in the wood stove in winter so being reminded to do with a short prayer is nice :-)

    I'm certainly not aware of *any* clerics in my area using the 1960 Divine Office. Almost everyone is on the LOTH except the local Benedictines to whom I'm associated, who have their own post-conciliar schema (Schema B, all 150 psalms in 1 week, no omissions of either psalms or verses). They do Lauds and Vespers in Latin Gregorian chant. In any case the LOTH does well at what it is intended to do, make the Office manageable and user-friendly for overworked, ageing and less numerous clergy. Bonus points, it makes it easy for the laity to participate as well. My biggest beef with it is the NT Canticle at Vespers. How anyone can find any trace of musicality or poetry in these Canticles is beyond me. I like to chant the Office in Gregorian chant, and even in chant (maybe especially so) they sound syncopated and un-melodius. In any future revision I'd like to see them ditched and replaced with a proper vesperal psalm. I don't mind the psalm distribution too much. At least some of the psalms are at their traditional places: 62, 117, 148-149 at Lauds on Sundays, 109-113B at Sunday 1st or 2nd Vespers (though psalms 113A and 113B have never been on Sundays in original Benedictine Divine Office), many of the psalms of the Office of Readings from monastic Matins (I use the OOR as "Vigils").

    For Compline in the Benedictine Office, post-Council, the Thesaurus Liturgiae Horarum Monasticae allows Benedictines to say the responsory "In manus Tuas" and the Nunc Dimittis ad libitum even for those using the original Benedictine format of psalms 4, 90 and 133 every day; the abbey I am associated with do in fact say them.. I also use those psalms daily in the LOTH, as you note it's a licit option. I take the psalms of Sunday and the readings of the day; I've also seen at a monastery in Italy (Sant' Anselmo in Rome) where they do psalms 4 and 133 in odd weeks, and psalm 90 in even weeks.

    Ora
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,232
    That would be a flaw in the distribution of the psalms, then, which I would attribute to having to squeeze everything into seven hours without Prime.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,765
    N.B. The LOTH is not an improvement if we can't sing the Office together...

    As for the "it makes it easy for the laity to participate as well." not if there are 'options' and different translations. Can I participate in France, Ireland, Germany...?

    My N.O. parish has E.F. Vespers, because it is easier, and in a multi-lingual city it helps the laity to participate.

    I suspect that more people use the Divine Office on a regular basis than the modern LOTH.
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    @tomjaw

    There is nothing to prevent one from doing the LOTH in Latin. I chant it privately in Latin every day using Les Heures Grégoriennes, Antiphonale Romanum II, and sometimes supplementing it with antiphons from Antiphonale Monasticum and Psalterium Monasticum. Our abbey does post-Vatican II Lauds and Vespers in Latin as do many monasteries around the world, using a post-conciliar monastic schema.

    We have a bigger problem though in my area (Quebec). Finding a place where the LOTH is even recited, let alone sung, in *any* language. But there are many praying it daily in their own language, in private, including our oblates. I don't think that level of private participation existed before Vatican II. In fact the laity weren't even encouraged to pray it then.

    When given a lemon we can either suck on the lemon and grimace, or make lemonade with it and smile. I think that's what St-Martin managed to do in France with Les Heures Grégoriennes. Not perfect, but a good start, and I'm happy to enjoy some of that lemonade with them.

    +pax

    Ora
    Thanked by 2Olivier tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,765
    Here in England I gather from looking at information boards / websites that the most commonly sung Office is Evensong by the Anglicans. The next most common will be the Divine Office E.F. I know of two parishes the recite the LOTH during the week, but I don't know anyone that chants it.

    I don't think that level of private participation existed before Vatican II. In fact the laity weren't even encouraged to pray it then.


    Here in England many books were published with the Office in the years c.1880 to 1965, all for the laity, someone must have been buying them and using them.

    Being part of a community that exclusively uses the E.F. I am disappointed that the LOTH is so difficult to use, and so fixed to local use / translation. I can travel around the world with my L.U. / Antiphonal, and can join in the Office with most E.F. communities.

    Most disappointing of all is how rarely the Office is now publicly sung.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,232
    That's the biggest problem: it takes more books to sing the LOTH, and it's taken years for them to come out...if at all.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    Since Les Heures Grégoriennes came out, one really needs only its three volumes to chant the entire diurnal Office and the beauty of its organization is that you only need one book on any given day; there's no need to swap books mid-way through a prayer unlike the Monastic Office, unless you want to enhance a particular Office with another antiphon (LHG only gives one choice for the Benedictus and Magnificat on Sundays and many feasts and solemnities).

    For the Office of Readings which I still use as the Night Office, I produced my own Nocturnale using the Ordo Cantus Officii as my guide. Still working on shaking down the bugs (typos and the odd omission) but it works. But then in many monasteries the night office was sung recto-tono. I don't get to any EF communities when I travel. I gravitate more towards Benedictine communities and it's rare to find those that use the EF, and then again it's the Benedictine Office when that's the case so my Psalterium Monasticum or the three volumes of the AM would get me by or my two-volume Breviarum Monasticum; however all monasteries I've visited have made what I need available to me when I visit, regardless of schema used. Point taken about the language though, but for personal use the LOTH (in French) works well for me. I can chant it when at home using LHG, and I can carry a single volume around when travelling. When I'm on vacation, simply reciting the LOTH works for me.

    Keep in mind that the recitation of at least part of the Office is part of my oblate commitment. Until retirement two years ago I had a very busy IT career with a family and a 100 km each way commute. The LOTH, which I am allowed to use (the other alternative being the Monastic Office), fit that perfectly and allowed me to recite all of the same hours that are mandatory for diocesan clergy. I developed an attachment to it, and the latest work from St-Martin and Solesmes has been, for me, the icing on the cake. So while there are many flaws to that Office, I can say that no Office is perfect, from having tried different Monastic schemas and the LOTH isn't anywhere near as bad as most people claim (I have no attraction whatsoever to the 1910 Pius X psalter; it is a significant departure from both the old Roman and Monastic breviaries; if I'm going to go through all that trouble I'd prefer using the 1500 y.o. monastic breviary adapted to the modern liturgical year of where I can attend Mass, no licit E.F. being available to me within 100 km).

    I find that simply saying "it is what it is" and "Roma locuta est, causa finita est" about the LOTH, giving in, and using it as my daily prayer without fretting about its imperfections has been very beneficial. It removed a lot of inner tension and helped make it for me, at least, genuine prayer instead of constant whingeing and irritation about its imperfections. I can also amplify it if I need to. A couple of ways I do that, is to pray all the canonical hours when working from home (mostly volunteer work these days), and to use, for Vespers and Compline, the traditional Monastic schema. I've seen that practice in a couple of monasteries, where they use the LOTH sung in the vernacular for Matins, Lauds and mid-day prayer, and the Antiphonale Monasticum sung in Latin for Vespers and Compline, mostly in houses where there was a lot of activity for the monks outside the abbey (colleges, parish support, etc.). Sant' Anselmo in Rome is one such place.

    Ora
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,783
    ok. how about a simpler question

    is there an Ordo ANYWHERE that simply lists the selections by page number for lauds and/or vespers each day for the LU?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,232
    Not that I know.
  • Ben Dunlap
    Posts: 48
    I know of two parishes the recite the LOTH during the week, but I don't know anyone that chants it.


    My parish (in Kansas) has chanted Sunday Evening Prayer during Advent & Lent for years, and this year we bought a set of Mundelein Psalters so that we could add more Sundays during the year without needing to hand-point each psalm, create many more booklets, etc.

    Has worked really well and my understanding is that the parish office staff now chant Morning Prayer together most days (they used to recite from Shorter Christian Prayer but replaced those books with Mundelein Psalters when we got the set in).
    Thanked by 1advocatus
  • advocatusadvocatus
    Posts: 85
    In my parish (also in Kansas), we sing Lauds every Sunday from the Mundelein Psalter, Vespers on some Sundays, and Compline at least two days a week. It's great not to have to create printed resources for all of these services.

    http://www.stmichaelcp.org/music-liturgy-of-the-hours
    http://www.stmichaelcp.org/the-choir-1

    Kevin Vogt
    Director of Sacred Liturgy, Music and Art
    St. Michael the Archangel Catholic Church
    Leawood, Kansas
    Thanked by 1Ben Dunlap
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    A problem with the Liber Usualis is that it is not complete: it is neither the Graduale, nor the Antiphonale. That is, if you want to have sung Mass every day of the year, or if you even just want to sing a single hour of the office on every day of the year, you will eventually find the Liber lacking something.

    E.g. it does not have the ferial tone for the hymn at Compline; neither does it have the proper chants needed for the Masses of the weekdays of Lent.

    The limited scope of the Liber is summarized as part of the introduction which can be found on p. vij of the .pdf version available here.

    I wonder sometimes if, useful as it is, the Liber Usualis has not in a way cheated us out of the mindset that sung Mass / Divine office ought to be a daily business.

    Who really sings our (1962) Roman office every single day? Not the monks; they use the monastic form of the office, which is different.

    But I digress.

    Regarding an ordo for singing from the Liber Usualis, my guess is that the rubrics which begin on p. li are meant to be sufficient to explain the singing of the offices and Masses which are within the scope of the Liber Usualis.

    Beyond this, the entirety of the decree referenced by the Liber, "Rubricae Breviarii et Missalis romani" of 25 July 1960, can be read in English translation in this book. For the Latin of these rubrics, consult the 1962 Missal in .pdf here (for the parts relating to the Mass), as well as this .pdf here (for the parts relating to the office).

    Beyond these resources, I don't quite know where else to look for such information at present. Does an Antiphonale Romanum 1960 exist? I'd be curious to see this book, but I am not optimistic about its being anything other than a straight reprint of the 1949 version. But if it even had just a list of changes to be made to bring it up to date with 1960 rubrics, that would be golden.

    At any rate, these are things which should be investigated, and will need to be, sooner or later.















  • francis
    Posts: 10,783
    tnx JonthanKK for your info. at present just shooting for lauds and vespers so thinking the Liber will suffice to get going.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,765
    @JonathanKK

    The link you gave gives the following,

    Original from the University of Michigan
    Digitized 25 May 2010
    Length 1434 pages

    So can we get the University to send one of us a copy?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,232
    Of course, much of what isn’t in the Liber Usualis would be sung recto tono in the diurnale.
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    When I search for the AR on the University of Michigan library's site, I come up with this page, which tags the book "building use only", so I doubt it is going anywhere.

    However, you can search (without viewing) the digitized text at hathitrust.org here, doing which I have not come up with any encouraging results, e.g. for "Rubricae Breviarii et Missalis romani". They also give for the publishing information: Parisiis, Typis Societatis S. Joannis Evang., Desclée, 1949 [i.e. 1960], which seems to de-emphasize the 1960 date.

    This is the book I contacted Googlebooks about, and they said that no, they are unable to provide full access to this book from the United States at this time. Perhaps in another country it is viewable? I don't know.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    Does an Antiphonale Romanum 1960 exist?


    Not that I know of but I believe an Antiphonale Romanum 1912 exists and would be the one to use for the 1960 Offices, as the basic psalm schema of 1960 is that of the Pius X breviary of 1910. I might have a PDF copy on my computer somewhere but right now I'm on my iPad. It would have most of what is needed but with some rubric variations. For example the practice was to chant only the incipit of the antiphon at the start of the psalm and the whole antiphon after the psalm. Sometime in the 1950s it was changed to chanting the entire antiphon both before and after the psalm. It would make the Antiphonary a wee bit awkward, but by no means impossible, to use.

    On the monastic side there is of course the 1934 Monastic Antiphonary. It would probably have almost all of what you need to assemble booklets, and it's still available from Solesmes.

    Ora
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,232
    It was changed by 1960, since simples were eliminated and then all of the hours were doubled when the rankings were changed. Previously even on doubles the little hours were only semidoubled.

    You need the new Sacred Heart office plus Christ the King if you use 1912, and you need the new Assumption, Holy Week, & San Giuseppe Comunista (St. Joseph the Worker was referred to as such by Roman clergy from day 1), and at least the references for anyone canonized after 1912/49 and added to the calendar.
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    Ah yes I forgot about Holy Week and Christ the King and the other additions. The Monastic would have Christ the King but not Holy Week. I have a 1956 Ordo Hebdomadae Sanctae Restauratus but for the Office it simply refers you to the Roman Breviary. The Liber though should have most of what is needed for the Triduum at least.

    Ora
  • francis
    Posts: 10,783
    yes.... the liber...: why is there not an Ordo for at least lauds and vespers?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,232
    Because that’s not really what an ordo is for, though it seems like a useful idea; I have a hard enough time with the breviary on some feasts.
  • rarty
    Posts: 96
    Sorry to recommend another book that is out of print and generally unavailable to use, but the Antiphonale-Romano Seraphicum (1928) is useful for EF Lauds on Sundays and Feasts (I and II class, even in Advent/Lent; it only lacks the Lauds ferial psalter and the IV class Eastertide ferial antiphons which aren't commemorated). It points the Sunday/Festal psalms and the Benedictus, has the familiar Solesmes markings, and is a bit more updated than the 1912 Antiphonale Romanum.

    Also, besides the full rubrics given in the posts above, the list of changes in 1960 is given more directly in another document issued at the same time, the Variationes which begins on p. 706 in this PDF. It is similar to what is given in the beginning of the PDF Liber (cf. p. 51/Li), but more complete.

    When using an old chant book for EF/1962 Sunday Lauds (once you check an ordo/calendar and the index to locate the office):

    • Omit Pater and Ave
    • Sing the full antiphon before each psalm as well as after (which also changes how Psalm 99 is begun on green Sundays: since the antiphon ends with "alleluia", the psalm should begin with "Jubilate")
    • I imagine it is effectively equivalent to the older wording, but the hymn Aeterne rerum is used on Sundays after Epiphany and the 'gesima Sundays, the hymn Ecce iam noctis is used on Sundays after Pentecost through Sept. 30, and from Oct. 1 until Advent, the hymn is again Aeterne rerum.
    • Suffrages (of All Saints or of the Cross) are omitted, so after the prayer (and any commemoration), skip to V. Dominus vobiscum... V. Benedicamus Domino...
    • Omit the final Pater, V. Dominus det nobis..., the final antiphon of our Lady, and the V. Divinum auxilium...; Lauds ends with the V. Fidelium animae... R. Amen.
    • It is worth noting that in the Lauds of the Dead, Psalm 129 is now always omitted
    • Note also that several major offices are not in the 1912 AR: Christ the King (1925; Lauds in Liber), Sacred Heart (revised 1929; Lauds in Liber), Assumption (revised 1951; Lauds in Liber), St. Joseph the Worker (1955; Lauds in Liber)


    Maybe others can add or explain these points better.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,783
    tnx all

    you are quite helpful and generous in taking the time to navigate the labyrinth.

    it is just amazing to me that the loth and the mass are so... fragmented. it's been a couple of millennia since Jesus left and we seem to be in chaos
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,232
    Rarty, what days does the AR-S lack? (Using the 1960 terms for a book which uses duplex, semiduplex, and simple is a bit jarring.) I imagine it has all classes of double feasts. Does it have semidouble/simple feasts too then?

    But it does not have antiphons for Lauds II in Lent, then? The Eastertide antiphon is generally Alleluia anyways, unless another one is given for the day.

    Are you out of luck if the antiphon is still ferial on a lower-ranked feast? I cannot find Hausman’s Learning the Breviary at the moment; it tells you the possible schemes, which would help answer my own questions. But it seems most feasts in the 1911 scheme take the psalmody from the day.

    The hymn doxology changes less in the 1960 office. I pray Divino Afflatu according to the St. Lawrence Press ORDO so I ignore all of those changes. Though what is interesting is I still have yet to pray an office other than on a Marian feast which uses the common psalter, e.g. of Apostles.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,765
    I use http://divinumofficium.com or my 1934 Day Hours Book, to work out the Office, I too use Divino Afflatu, Of course modifications have to be made for local Calendars, Patronal Feasts etc. and all their Octaves!