An affordable tracker organ
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    Taking Chonak's advice, I thought I'd start a new thread, to discuss strategies for making a small tracker organ affordable for most parishes. I'll get the ball rolling, but would be delighted if you could all chime in with some ideas...

    My design begins and ends with the organ builder. His or her labour rates are never discounted. The idea is to save on all the other costs: design, manufacturing, materials etc.

    1. Laser-guided cutting. Getting our organ builder access to this kind of machinery could reduce production time massively. Most builders will want to plane down the last few mm anyway, but reduced production time means reduced labour costs.
    2. Computer-aided design. Imagine if we had a basic design that could be put straight into the programs running a laser-guided cutting system. Better still, imagine a windchest design where all you needed to do was input the new pipe scales and all the dimensions of the instrument changed accordingly.
    3. Parish volunteer work. What things could be outsource to parishioners safely? Projected cost reductions?
    4. Would it be possible to develop a 'standard design of blower' that would meet the need of this kind of organ at a reduced price?
    5. How can we reduce supply chain costs?

    My idea is for a small instrument, but with scaling that means it will fill whatever building it's in. That design, again, is:

    Manual:
    Open Diapason 8'
    Stopped Diapason 8'
    Octave 4'
    Flute 4'
    [Nasard 2 2/3']
    Fifteenth 2'

    Pedal:
    Subbass 16'

    All stops divided at Middle C. Tremulant. Mechanical action.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    By my calculations, this requires almost 400 pipes to be made.

    Organ building is a very archaic art form. It has not changed much in a thousand years. The pipe metal is still made up and poured onto a bed of sand, the metal is planed to thickness and then the components which make up each pipe are marked out and cut and then shaped by hand.

    To be honest, I could see that this marking out and cutting could be done by a laser cutter, but the forming of the pipes would still have to be done by hand.

    It also depends on the specifications. Would the Subbass be a wood rank?

    Whilst we mention wood, I suppose we need to ask about the wind-chests and casework. Except for computer-aided design, I believe that it still needs to be largely made by hand. However, marking out the toe holes for the pipes would be made quicker and easier. I suppose the rack-boards could be also laser-cut.

    I think that the considerations for the casework need to be taken into account. A very plain case would be quicker and cheaper to make, but who would want a plywood box?

    Perhaps keeping it simple would help. Personally, I am rather partial to facade pipes laid out in three gothic arches for the facade. The larger Subbass pipes could simply be painted and form the sides of the casework, facing outwards.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,802
    Well, exactly (or even roughly) how affordable (If you need to ask...)?

    If there's no reed or mixture it would seem desirable to have a fiery sesquialtera as Dobson often does, even if the nazard and tierce are treble only (maybe that would save enough for broken D sharps and A flats?)

    I can't help wondering if the 16' only pedal can be a truly independent division for Bach, Brahms or Mendelssohn...
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    hartleymartin, I've been thinking about pipework, and given the number of instruments being made redundant, the simplest solution would be to get good historic pipework or stuff that's unvoiced - but all from the SAME instrument.

    Richard Mix, I promise you that a single 16' will be enough. Play a Silbermann pedal division and believe.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,802
    Palestrina,

    Do you mean Gottfried Silbermann, and which pedal division should I try? Or can I look at a specification that has a single 16' intended to work without coupling?

    Andreas built a number of instruments that like the French classical organs have only a single 8' pedal. This one, for example, is close to the size you're proposing, and I don't see obvious disadvantages compared to your scheme.
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    I'll have to look up which instrument it was, but basically, his 16' ranks will stand alone in a pedal texture. You couple down from the manuals for anything that's not in a trio texture.
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    Ah, now I remember... The Silbermann at Rotha... http://mypipeorganhobby.blogspot.com/2008/12/brief-history-on-december-22-1718.html

    Large specification, but if you look at the pedal, all you've got is a 16' Principal and reeds at 16' and 8'. That 16' Principal is unique - fits nicely into a trio texture or comes up a treat when you couple down the manuals for bigger works.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    If we want to talk about "affordable" basically, it needa to be something competitive with the cost of your basic 2 manual digital organ. You average suburban church will be swayed more by the price tag than any arguements over the benefits of a real pipe organ.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I second that, Hartley. Why does our church have a Hammond instead of a small positif? Probably because someone donated it, whereas they would have had to purchase the pipe organ.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    I mentioned in the previous thread that the idea was to build at a price that would compete with simulacra.

    What I am after in this thread is thoughts on reducing costs through production efficiency.
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    Look at this case study for Steinway Pianos. An organ is a different instrument, of course, but my question is: what can we learn? What can be outsourced or produced differently that will not diminish the quality of the end result, but lower costs in a way that will make the organs competitive with simulacra?
    http://www.tbmcg.co.uk/misc_assets/newsletter/casestudy_Steinway_Q32008.pdf
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Well, for one thing you can outsource the production of the keyboards and pedalboards. There is a company in Italy which do them as kits. I suppose you could also outsource certain components to Organ Supply Industries.

    I think that the biggest single reduction in cost would be to source pipes from old instruments that have been disassembled. I've purchased a couple of ranks of pipes in this way. I have a complete 2' Hohlflute, partial 4' Rohrflute and treble 8' Open Diapason purchased quite cheaply this way. It appears that they came out of the same instrument.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    @harleymartin, where did you source these pipes, is there craigs list for used pipe organ parts?
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    I bought them off ebay. All three ranks came from the same seller, he just sold them at different times over the past couple of years.
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    Buying random pipes off Ebay is a sure way for this kind of project to fail. Although I agree that secondhand pipework is a good option, I would only purchase ranks either from a professional builder, or on the advice of one. The builder can provide all appropriate advice about scaling and voicing. This is where having an organ builder at the heart of my project is key.

    I specifically don't want to go through the normal supply houses for most things, since this is no different to what most organ builders currently do, and therefore has no real potential to deliver cost savings.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    I'm having an organ builder refurbish them and revoice them.
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    It's not a policy that I am willing to follow. The builder should be involved entirely with pipe acquisition, not as some kind of first aider when it all goes wrong.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Either everyone is off on their Christmas break, or perhaps you'd be better off bringing this up on an organ-specific forum. Most people here on Musica Sacra are passionate amateurs and enthusiasts rather than "professionals" in the strictest sense.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Ah, yes, but I am interested in a low cost, yet great sounding organ for my parish. If this does move to an organ site. Please let me know of it so I can follow it.
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