Which forms of the Chant?
  • sacristy_rat
    Posts: 10
    The Roman Kyriale and Missal have certain chants oriented for various events in the Liturgical year. Even the way the celebrant intones various things in the liturgy is "supposed to be" different for different feasts.

    It seems pretty a pretty obvious statement that most TLM communities, even the SSPX, uses the Missa de Angelis for a Sung Mass. Why is this, from your perspective? If there are rubrics that envision versions of the Sacred Chant being used to highlight a particular season then why do most of us only hear the "Missa de Angelis" at High Mass, giving us the false notion that other forms of the chant are incorrect? Is it a default? Are the musical rubrics written in sand?

    Our Parish has taken on a new choir master and developed a parish choir. He seldom uses the Missal de Angelis. Some folks wonder, "What's up with that?". He used "Orbis Factor" for most of the Sunday's after Pentecost. Seems correct there. The Kyriale says that Kyrie is "for all Sundays of the year". He uses XVI as well, not a favorite of mine but simple none the less.

    How are these chants "supposed to be used"? Is there a true right and wrong here? A technicality written in the sand?

    Thanks,
    http://stpeters-troy.tripod.com/
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    My understanding is there is no "right and wrong". Sing "Lux et origo" during Lent if you wish (although whether that's wise is a pastoral judgment). The chant assignments are just matters of tradition. I'd say trash Mass VIII, there's so many other great "Duplicibus" settings, such as Mass V.
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    There's good discussion over at TNLM on this. The ordinaries in the LU and Kyriale are suggestions, but they are suggested for the quality and traditional use of those ordinaries. Lux et origo, for example, has that joyous quality that one would want with the Easter season. De Angelis also has a certain Christmas flavor, which may be just a learned association, but the medieval trope that was sung to the Kyrie celebrates that Christmas proclamation IIRC.

    moconnor
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    I must be one of the few chant fans that actually likes Mass VIII.
  • emafi
    Posts: 7
    We started the Tridentine (Low) Mass a couple months ago, and plan to transition to Sung or High Mass soon. If the Kyriale listings (1st class, 2nd class, Marian, etc.) are just suggestions, what ordinaries should a nascent choir work on? (Our choir's numbers only currently range from 3 to 4, with 2 tenors, a bass, and an alto.) We already know de Angelis and Cum Populo (the Novus Ordo Missa Brevis), but can the former be sung exclusively (at least initially)? Also, a couple of us know the polyphonic Missa Secunda by Hassler, and I'd like to learn Palestrina's Missa Brevis. Are there seasons when such polyphony is forbidden or unsuitable? (Lent comes to mind.)

    Finally, the propers are another undertaking entirely, and I'm curious what people have done. Rossini's "Propers..." is helpful, but are there alternate suggestions? We definitely need to economize at this point.

    Happy New Year.
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    There's a book by Tozer called The Proper of the Mass for Sundays and Holidays Set to Simple Music. You can get in in reprint from PCP Books, www.pcpbooks.com
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    PLEASE don't think that polyphony is not appropriate at Lent. Some of the greatest polyphony of all time was composed for the Lenten season. Polyphony can "do penitential" as well as chant. Also, you don't want people to associate chant with penitence! My goodness, don't deny your congregation some of the wonderful works. The liturgy already builds in what you need -- penitential texts and a removal of the more joyous items (Gloria and Alleluia). Sit down with the complete works of Guerrero, Palestrina, Josquin, Victoria, Byrd, or Morales and you will see music that brings the season to the hearts of the faithful!

    BTW Happy New Year! Sing a Te Deum today (and a Alma Redemptoris Mater)

    moconnor
  • Hugh
    Posts: 198
    On p.78 of my edition of the L.U. (just after the Ordinary Chants and before the Chants "Ad Libitum") is the note: "This Ordinary is NOT (sic) meant to be a matter of hard and fast rule : chants from one Mass may be used together with those from others, the Ferial Masses excepted. In the same way, in order to add greater solemnity, one or more of the following "Chants ad libitum" may be employed." ....

    So, in principle, I guess, one can cherry pick from amongst the ordinaries.


    At St Aloysius, Melbourne Australia. FSSP we have been moving through the Ordinary over the last couple of years, and now have about 5 or 6 Ordinaries, plus 4 Creeds, that the congregation can sing.

    I appreciate this site, which I've only just come across, and wish all a very happy new year.

    Hugh Henry
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    We learned Mass XVII for Advent in the schola and plan to use it again during Lent this year. One advantage is that it is in the Liber Cantualis. We are definitely a beginning schola...
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