Singing at Lourdes

Richard Mix

Our congregation is sending a youth group to Lourdes this summer, and they are learning the rosary in French. Before I do some tedious Youtube research, is anyone here aware of what gets sung at the shrine? Is there an ordinary setting they should prepare? Is it likely they will get a chance to join any singing in Latin?

quilisma

You don't need much of a repertoire to participate at Lourdes. At the 5pm Blessed Sacrament procession they might sing Pater noster and Tantum ergo. At the Marian procession, Immaculate Mary (in French), Credo III and Salve Regina will stand you in good stead.
You'll be lucky to hear a Latin ordinary - globally the music is mediocre. I generally avoid the Sunday morning International Mass in the underground basilica. There's a TLM at 9 or 9.30am on Sundays in the upper basilica but it's a low Mass with organ (unless they've found some singers).
Much of the music is antiphonal, i.e. just repeat the sung refrain. Participation isn't great in multi-lingual services, except for (maybe just my perception) the old Latin favourites....maybe there's a lesson to be learnt there.....?

Richard Mix

Thanks, and I didn't get my hopes too high. There's a TV Lourdes: the on-demand Rosaries don't work from the English page, but I tried again in French. They sing a Gloria Patri and Immaculate Mary with a loud cantor. The website does have an invitation to join drop-in procession choirs.

Credo III would be a nice addition to our repertoire. I guess the Pater noster would differ from Snow; is the Tantum Gregorian or the ubiquitous DUGUET?.

fp

...had to do a little research...."Duguet" version is the most popular.
Lourdes is where I learned the Christus Vincit too....

mctilzey

Just wondering if you might have come across the proper chant notation for the Gloria Patri that the French use at the end of each decade of the rosary? You'll hear it if you listen to the rosary on lourdes-france.org. I've been searching for it for a while, but haven't come across exactly the right notation.

As I'm sure you're aware, the French say the Creed, Our Father, and the Hail Mary's in French, but the Glory Be in Latin. Instead of the Fatima prayer, they finish each decade generally with "Ô Marie, conçue sans péché, priez pour nous qui avons recours à vous" taken from the Miraculous medal. I haven't been able to discover why they switch languages.

When I was at Lourdes last summer, I bought just about every songbook they had in their shop. My things are all traveling across the oceans at the moment, but once they arrive in the next month or so, I'll should have a copy of most any of the songs in French that they use at Lourdes. If you're in need of any, let me know.

And are you planning to go to Paris also? Celebrating the Feast of the Assumption at Notre-Dame de Paris is wonderful! And a rosary at the Chapel of the Miraculous Medal is another nice thing to do.

mctilzey

Here's a link to the Hail Mary, in French, sung at Lourdes. This was the first time I've heard them sing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMPiqQQq9Ac

Simon

My experience with Lourdes is immense disappointment. Was there during a vacation in the area some 10 years ago. Commercialism to the extreme. Singing and priestly input dreadful and experienced zero spirtually. Was glad to leave.

CharlesW

There for a while, they could have been singing, "Wade in the Water." I hope they were able to repair all the flood damage.

G

I imagine at Lourdes, they sing the Lourdes hymn differently than most Americans, with the "A" of "Ave" as a pick-up, with "ve" on the downbeat.
Can anyone confirm?

(Save the Liturgy, Save the World)

Richard Mix

That link has a different hymn at the end instead, but you can hear the upbeat version here in French and here in English. I'm not sure what the picture for "most Americans" really looks like; the The GIA "Immaculate Mary" (Aaaaave) is a big incentive to stay awake during December, with most caroling gigs and concerts using the Rutter "A Virgin most pure" with upbeat Ave's. If you hear one coming from the pews, better snatch up that choral-trained singer after Mass!

ronkrisman

I wasn't aware that GIA is responsible for, or to blame for, the way Immaculate Mary is sung by most English-speakers in the USA. And it's all the more amazing when I page through several Catholic hymnals published before 1941 (the year the Gregorian Institute of America was founded) and find that the "A-" of the 5 (not 6) "Ave's" in the refrain all fall on a downbeat.

And - why should English-speakers pronounce the Latin as the French do, accenting all the final syllables?

Does anyone know how Germans sing the Lourdes hymn?

Adam Wood

For real.

Of all the things GIA has ever done, you want to complain about Immaculate Mary?

dood

Richard Mix

I'm not necessarily assigning blame to either GIA or OUP. I merely single out The Catholic Community Hymnal and Rutter as the two versions I personally juggle every year: one does have to keep on one's toes, I think, or will you please please tell me how you learned to do this on autopilot? It's interesting and not particularly surprising that Aave was widespread even in the pre-GIA US, and I'd be happy to learn of further data. Is this 6-fold Ave a typo, for example?

My Google-foo doesn't seem strong enough either to find a German Lourdeschoral, but Czechs apparently do sing upbeats. As to why they might do so, would anyone travel to France, join an international multilingual service and change one refrain out of scores of verses? For real?

CHGiffen

In the French version here, with upbeats on the "A-" of "Ave" there are indeed 6 (not 5) "Ave"s, presumably because of the different accentual pattern. Note also the different placement of "Maria" in the refrain, which removes any accent "-i-" in "Maria."

CHGiffen

Here it is, in English (from Canada), with 6 Aves (edit: this is the same as the one Richard linked to above):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcs6WPjZi0k#t=158

melofluent

I think their may be some correlation (European ) in "Ave " matter by way how the Portuguese also stress the second syllable in the OLoFatima hymn A treze de Maio.

madorganist

I believe A. E. Tozer is responsible for shifting the Aves in "Immaculate Mary." See the footnote on p. 128 (of the PDF) in his Catholic Church Hymnal:

In the chorus to this hymn, as arranged above, the Latin words receive their proper accent, or quantity. The "popular" rendering of the melody, as sung in other countries, makes this impossible.

I don't think this caught on in the UK, but somehow it spread to the US. Incidentally, Maronite Catholics in the US sing it in English with an Arabic refrain (Salaam, Salaam, la-kee-ya Maryam) with what Tozer calls the "popular rendering of the melody."

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