Ash Wednesday - interesting happenings and music?
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    See or hear anything interesting at your Ash Wednesday Mass(es)?

    I will say that for the first time ever in my life I saw only clerics distributing ashes without a single EM (EA?) in Ordinary-Form circumstances.
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    Funny you should ask...

    I sang from the back of the church this morning. We had a visitor from one of our mission parishes in attendance, and since we had no lector for the first reading, she volunteered. When it was time to sing the psalm we just did it the way we always do; I lead, the people follow and yada yada I don't know what made me look up, but when I did I saw her cueing in the people with this little hand-flippy thing from the ambo. It was like a car wreck- I couldn't stop looking :)
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,048
    At Mary Queen of Peace, Cleveland
    Introit: Miseris omnium Domine (Gregorian)
    Psalm: Guimont
    Imposition: Immutemur habitu (J.M. Nunez Garcia), Parce Domine (Gregorian)
    Offertory: Exaltabo te (A. Scarlatti)
    Sanctus through Agnus: chant mass
    Communion: Qui meditabitur (Gregorian), Miserere mei ( di Lasso)
    Hymn: Lord, who throughout these 40 Days (St. Flavian)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122
    Opening: Again We Keep This Solemn Fast (OLD HUNDREDTH)
    Psalm: Guimont
    Gospel Acclamation: Proulx
    Distribution of ashes: Parce Domine (arr. C.H. Giffen)
    Offertory: SEP
    Ordinary: ICEL
    Communion: SEP
    Closing: The Glory of These Forty Days (ERHALT UNS HERR)

    With the exception of the readings and the homily, we had a completely sung Mass. This is a first for our parish. Reform of the reform is alive and well in suburban Detroit.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen bkenney27
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Was going to have a low Mass with the bishop (EF), but he fell ill, so we had another celebrant and made the switch to a high Mass. I quickly learned the propers, did all the liber propers (psalm tone grad + tract). Another friend was also there, and joined me singing. Over 100 people here.

    Also chanted attende domine, ave regina caelorum, and anima christi.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    I was the scheduled lay reader, and went back to the sacristy to see what priest had the Mass, (it is required that the reader make an announcement of the celebrant at this parish.)
    The pastor said not to read the psalm, he would be singing it.
    He chanted it to a Gregorian tone, very nicely, and I was emboldened to sing the gospel acclamation, (I have been singing the Alleluia when I am scheduled as reader, but this is my first Lent there,) and I used a simple setting I have derived from attende domine.
    Response on the first iteration by the people was decent, and on the second, excellent.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Holy Ghost Catholic Church, Knoxville, TN - 450 people in attendance

    Entrance: Lord, Who throughout These Forty Days (St. Flavian)
    Psalm: # 51 by Michael Bedford
    Gospel Acclamation: Proulx
    Distribution of Ashes: R. Rice - Simple Choral Gradual
    Offertory: Pie Jesu - Gounod
    Ordinary: Vatican Edition XVIII
    Communion Proper: R. Rice
    Communion Hymn: Attende Domine
    Recessional: The Glory of These Forty Days (Erhalt Uns Herr)
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen RedPop4
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    At the Ash Distribution Service (not Mass), our schola did this...

    Introit: Lumen Christi Missal (LCM)
    Resp. Pslam: LCM
    Gospel Accl.: Mass of Renewal
    Distribution of Ashes: Parce Domine (in English)/ Lord Jesus Think on Me/ "Blot out my Transgressions..." (Ant.3 from LCM)
    Closing: a single bell only, struck about every 8 beats until Father et al got to the narthex

    That list might seem too basic but was a big deal for us. Our schola sings at just one Mass a month and we only introduced the Entrance and Communion Antiphons as well as a chanted Responsorial Psalm a little over a year ago. It was kind of a "risk" for us not to "throw in" anything the PIPs know... hoping we don't get any backlash :-)

    Edit: Well, I take that back... we actually did choose the Gosp. Accl. specifically from the Mass of Renewal b/c the PIPs are familiar w/ it. That's the first setting the DM chose when the new Roman Missal came down. Hoping to recommend some other (better) settings in the future...
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    Help me here:
    At a neighbouring parish, not my own:
    We had the priest only for the ashes (after Mass)
    Yet we had an extraordinary minister for the Eucharist. This seems backward to me?

    At the Mass where my choir provided music:
    Pergolesi: Stabat
    Attende Domine (chant)
    Parce Domine (Giffen)
    Propers: SEP
    and other various hymns along with the Latin Mass for weekdays so that everyone could feel comfortable.

    We sang a lot. I think there were more than 1000 people, which was great because our priest offered Mass at the schools too. Ashes took forever to distribute, even with help from EMs.



    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Introit: Misereris Mode I
    Processional: The Glory of These Forty Days (Erhalt Uns Herr)
    Psalm: Be Merciful O Lord, for We Have Sinned (Willcock)
    Gospel: Praise and Honor (Orbis Factor arr. Hurd)
    Distribution of Ashes: Parce Domine (Nowowieski)
    Preparation: Lord, For Thy Tender Mercy's Sake (Farrant)
    Acclamations: Community Mass
    Communio: Qui Meditabitur Mode III
    Communion Hymn: Draw Near and Take the Body of Our Lord (Coena Domine)
    Recessional: Lord Who Throughout These Forty Days (St. Flavian)
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Introit - Miseris omnium Domine, Mode I
    Oost-Zinner Psalm
    Bartlett Mode V Acclamation before Gospel
    Blot Out My Offenses (Bartlett), Have Mercy Lord On Us (Southwell), Lamb of God (Brace)
    Lumen Christi Offertory with harmonized verses
    Sanctus/Agnus Dei XVIII
    Lumen Christi Communion
    Ave Verum (Garau)
    Lord Who Throughout These Forty Days (St. Flavian)
  • At St Basil's Chapel at UST, Houston, I couldn't help but smile when we sang 'Lord, who throughout these forty days'. Fr Krisman has, after all, reminded us recently that it's forty-four days now, and actually has been for a thousand years. Just try fitting 'forty-four days' to our beloved 'St Flavian'... a pair of quavers in place of that crotchet will help.
    (A blessed Lent to you, father.... and to all.)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    ave regina caelorum


    Ben, whose setting and what did you sub out for the "alleluia's?"
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Ave Regina Caelorum has no alleluia.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    You must be thinking of something else, Charles... There's no alleluia in the text. We used the simple tone chant.

    image
  • St. Mary, Pine Bluff, Wis., 6:30pm

    (Organ silent throughout; most dialogs and orations sung)

    Prelude: O bone Iesu (Ingegneri)
    Introit: Your mercy extends; Psalm 57 (Bartlett–SEP)
    Kyrie XVI
    Psalm & Gospel Acclamation: Esguerra
    Distribution of Ashes: Immutemur habitu (Nunes Garcia), sung before and after Psalm 51 (SATB harmonization of Weber/Mundelein tone If)
    Offertory: I will extol you; Psalm 30 (Bartlett–SEP)
    Sanctus XVIII
    Memorial Acclamation: Save us (Roman Missal)
    Lord’s Prayer: chanted, English
    Agnus XVIII
    Communion: Qui meditabitur (Gregorian); He who meditates; Psalm 1 (Bartlett–SEP); Hide not thou thy face (Farrant); Anima Christi (Cherion, in Latin and English)
    Marian Antiphon: Ave Regina Caelorum (Soriano)
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Ben/MJM, so I thought until....
    Dufay-
    http://www1.cpdl.org/wiki/images/sheet/duf-aver.pdf

    Could be editor's augmentation? Chuck?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Could be editor's augmentation? Chuck?
    Raf Ornes (who founded CPDL 15 years ago) is a careful editor of early music. My guess is that the "augmemtation" is due to the composer (they did that sometimes).
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • IT IS INCUMBENT UPON THOSE WHO sing penitential chant ordinaries and hymns and the votive antiphon during this holy season of lent, to be prepared to sing ecstatic, joyful and overjoyed chant during Eastertide as well. Not necessarly entire masses, but items within the mass. Actually, the Mass I for Eastertide is not at all difficult. But then, also, numerous solo works such as Alleluya pascha nostrum and the offertories for the following Sundays. If one searches, one can find Wildly joyful Eastertide chants that should find a place along side hymns and anthems. There is, actually, hardly a better way to demonstrate the many sides of chant than by following up appropriately penitential Lenten ones, and, not skipping a beat, replacing them with ecstatic and overjoyed ones all through Eastertide. This would be a great teacher of the variety of chant and its close affinity to all strata of liturgical observance, as well as to the gamut of human emotion and spiritual states. If one did this, one would eradicate the 'chant is sad and is for penitential seasons syndrome' in short order... shooo it away. One could take a Gregorian hymn such as Ad Regias Agni Dapes, or Verbum Supernum Prodiens Nec Patris, in Latin or English verse, and teach it to the congregation as a communion hymn, possibly for the whole of Eastertide. If your people would sing this over the season in either language they would come to love it.

    (And the best way to make chant ecstatic and joyful is by a vigourous and artful semiology!)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    IT IS INCUMBENT UPON THOSE WHO sing penitential chant ordinaries and hymns and the votive antiphon during this holy season of lent, to be prepared to sing ecstatic, joyful and overjoyed chant during Eastertide as well.


    THANK YOU for bringing this up. This has always been a pet peeve of mine. The use chant exclusively in advent and lent, and the instant abandoning as soon as the white comes out sends a very negative message to the PIPs: chant is penitential, chant is a dirge.

    There's a certain part of me that thinks sending this message strongly is almost worse than not using it all, as it mentally conditions people to link it strongly with penance (as if the "real" music were taken away, given up per se, for lent), and makes it much harder to accept later, even if it is presented to them in a holistic way.
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Ben, you just described the situation at our parish. Chant and Latin are identified as a Lenten practice by the majority here.

    That being the case, I've opted to go the noble silence route for most of Lent. It was a little weird for the choir last night since they are used to singing during the imposition of ashes, but once I explained to them what I was doing they thought it a brilliant idea. One parishioner even told me afterward, that it helped her to focus because there wasn't the distraction of the pretty music.

    Thanked by 1RedPop4
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I don't find chant to be penitential or a dirge. However, there has been a lot of music written since chant. What may have sounded exuberant to Palestrina doesn't excite 21st-century ears to the same degree - nor can it. Liszt, for example may have been able to reduce an audience to tears with his improvisations. After hearing Metallica, contemporary ears don't excite so easily. Whether something comes across as joyful is somewhat contextual.
    Thanked by 2expeditus1 RedPop4
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Melo,
    The composer must've added it. Sometimes there are a few weeks between the Presentation and Lent (Purification and pre-Lent) when such a motet could be useful. Also, though I avoid it, there's nothing to say you couldn't use an Alma Redemptoris Mater or Ave Regina Caelorum as a motet in the middle of the Summer.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    That's true Charles.

    At my place, we use some chant all year long - the propers are chanted at the principal mass, various Agnus Dei's are used throughout the year. But we do use almost exclusively chant during Lent. It just feels more appropriate for such a serious time. We use more metrical hymnody during Easter. YMMV.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    MJO, I think we have this discussion often: sometimes Lent is the only time pastors will allow any Latin or chant. I've been in that position. The choice, then, is: 1) no chant ever, or 2) chant just during Lent. Since it's our job to preserve the treasury of sacred music, I always went with 2. Thankfully, I think those days are over for me...I hope! We'll probably do Mass VIII for Easter Sunday, but then on to an English setting: I "owe" them one after chant ordinaries exclusively for the past 3-4 months. That's a lot more than they're used to, so brick by brick. I agree that Mass I isn't bad at all, nor is it hard.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    To me it's all about doing mass reverently and properly while hopefully keeping the blood pressure low.

    If you chant the Sanctus and use the ICEL chants during Lent, and then move to Proulx's Community Mass or Mass for the City during Easter, what's the big deal? No one ever said that mass should be "Only chant, in Latin, ALL the time."
  • Except for the Gloria from Mass for the City. If your parish can do that, you should just hand out polyphony for them to sing.
    Thanked by 1bkenney27
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Here is an interesting happening. At our church, I did not provide the music this year, for a communion mediation hymn (after about 4 other happy clappy songs) instead of having silence the music minister did a song called Sacred Silence.
    The celebrant was fuming about it to me when we met up afterward.
    "Why not actually have sacred silence, instead of a song about sacred silence."

    I whole heartily agree!!
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Ugh...
    Well, now that's stuck in my head...

    Gentle water... washing over me...
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    MJM, there's a whole class of sacropop that I call "Plane Crash Tunes."
    In other words, when you're in the tin can at take-off, landing, turbulence or outright disaster beyond a screaming baby, there are ear-worm tunes like the one mentioned above that people use as mantras. That's not a bad thing, as it would be difficult to mentally hum Spam in alium when the chips are down.
  • I frequently hum Spem in alium. It's not difficult at all. Rather gladdening, really.
    Thanked by 2Ben CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Jackson, I truly believe you can hum the Tallis!
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Interesting fact:
    Of those posting music in this thread, a majority used the actual proper in English or Latin instead of a hymn for the procession it would seem.
    Thanked by 1SamuelDorlaque
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Spam in alium


    Heh. Reminds me of Zmirak commenting on contemporary liturgical music:

    "Here I am, Lord.” This hymn depicts a human soul responding to the call of Christ—but the music is whiny and grim, evoking in most people’s minds a can of rancid potted meat, being slowly spread by windshield wipers across a plate of dirty auto glass.
    Thanked by 2Ben RedPop4
  • Melo, MJM and CHG, I have always suspected that Dufay may have composed that setting of "Ave Regina Coelorum" for the Feast of the Assumption. We sing it at the end of that Mass.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Zmirak is Da Man! Matthew is da MiniMan.
    I do love me some Dufay, though.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Scott

    Correction...

    It's

    Spam in Aluminum
    Thanked by 1mmeladirectress
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Correction...

    It's

    Spam in Aluminum
    Fixed.
  • Mark HuseyMark Husey
    Posts: 192
    Saint Peter's Catholic Church: Columbia, South Carolina

    4 Masses; total attendance - 1400

    3 Choral Masses with identical repertory:
    Allegri "Miserere" (abridged) - At the imposition of Ashes
    Tallis "In iejunio et fletu" - Offertory Anthem
    Greene "Lord, let me know mine end" - Communion Anthem

    1 Bilingual Mass with contemporary music (other musicians, although one of our pro-tenors stayed to help them out); both programs attached.
  • Cathedral of Saint Joseph, Sioux Falls

    Choir Mass combining Cathedral Choir and Men's Chant Schola

    Miserere Mihi (Graduale - Prelude)
    Again we Keep this Solemn Fast (Old Hundredth - Entrance Procession)
    Guimont Psalm
    Parce Domine + Psalm 51 (Ashes)
    SEP + Brahms - Create in me a Clean Heart (Offertory)
    ICEL Ordinary
    Qui Meditabitur (Communion) + Bruckner Os Justi (Communion)
    Forty Days and Forty Nights - Recessional
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    I've opted to go the noble silence route for most of Lent. It was a little weird for the choir last night since they are used to singing during the imposition of ashes, but once I explained to them what I was doing they thought it a brilliant idea.

    Regarding the Distribution of Ashes, the Roman Missal states:

            Meanwhile, the following are sung:

    Three antiphon texts are given. Then, on the next page, it states:

            Another appropriate chant may also be sung.


    I agree with the choir members that it is "weird" to have silence during the Distribution of Ashes.

    If our goal is to Sing the Mass, then I do not see what is so noble or brilliant about having silence during the Distribution of Ashes when a choir is present and the Roman Missal explicitly calls for singing during this time.
    Thanked by 1MarkThompson
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Thank you for your input.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    My opinion: The "silence" thing is something that someone said about which they were originally correct (i.e. Don't be afraid to have some moments of silence in the mass; these are also appropriate) Yes, brilliant advice.

    Then people, as usual, start taking it to the point of ridiculous (i.e. don't improvise to cover the end of processions, just end hymns and let there be silence, etc.) Improvising, as well as perfectly covering ritual action with music that ends precisely when the action ends has a noble and rich tradition in the roman rite.

    It seems like people just get these ideas and then we have to ride with them to the farthest degree.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Ignoto
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    I'm all for well-placed silence. But it sounded to me as if having silence during the entire Distribution of Ashes was being advocated.

    Please... tell me I misunderstood?
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    Very well, Ignoto - you misunderstood. Perhaps you should read the entries in question in their entirety.

    To quote folk out of context and then advocate a pile-on is rather lacking in charity, don't you think?

    "Be principled, not polemic" and all that.

    I get the impression that there are some on this forum who, if they came to my church, would leave convinced that I was a philistine or a nincompoop who'd never read the rubrics or the documents of the Church. We all have choices we must make given the circumstances we're dealing with.

    Remember, there are young and vulnerable newly-minted sacred musicians who visit this forum to seek counsel, guidance, education and encouragement. Being rigorist, scrupulous or condescending when people make a choice we don't agree with will hardly help us in the cause.

    And, don't you also find it rather odd that this issue should be revisited now, after laying silent since March 10th? Just what was the reason for bringing it back up? Have the comments made recently done anything to address the issue, answer the question or provide valuable guidance for the individual toward whom these recent comments have been directed?

    I think not. But that's just my two cents.
  • Ignoto
    Posts: 126
    David,

    I read this thread about "interesting happenings and music on Ash Wednesday" back in March. When I read the "noble silence" post, I remember thinking, "hmm...interesting. I did not know silence was an option during the entire Distribution of Ashes."

    I did not think about this topic again until this morning. I was studying the Roman Missal and I happened upon the rubrics for Ash Wednesday. When I read "are sung" and no mention of silence as an option during the Distribution of Ashes, I recalled this posting from March. I then found and re-read this thread.

    Since people "visit this forum to seek counsel, guidance, education and encouragement," and members of this forum are called to "work together to provide mutual support and information on all issues related to sacred music," I decided to share my newfound information and express my opinion.

    Many of the posts in this thread listed music. In contrast, the "noble silence" post only mentioned silence and that it was "weird for the choir."

    What is it that I have misunderstood? The "noble silence" post seems to indicate that there was no music sung during the Distribution of Ashes.

    If you could please help me understand how I was quoting "out of context," or was "lacking in charity," or was "being rigorist, scrupulous, or condescending," I would appreciate it, because that was never my intention.

    I deeply believe that Singing the Mass is important, and in the context of the Roman Missal, I do not think that we should promote the idea of silence during the entire Distribution of Ashes.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Silence is appropriate at times. The consecration and elevations are silent. I believe that the Ave Verum Corpus has its origins as a hymn sung at the elevation.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    Silence is appropriate at times. The consecration and elevations are silent. I believe that the Ave Verum Corpus has its origins as a hymn sung at the elevation.


    I think it was after the elevation.

    EDIT, Having looked at the references I see Rev. M Britt, O.S.B. in 'Hymns of the Breviary and Missal' does say 'at' the Elevation... But Rev. J Connelly, in "Hymns of Roman Liturgy", "is one of the many short hymns which used to be sung in the Middle Ages after the Consecration, the Benedictus not then being divided from the Sanctus."

    I believe that Rev. M Britt when he writes 'at' he means the singing would start after the Elevation rather than during.
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Well, I was planning to thank you and move on...

    I read the Missal after the fact as well (My copy of the Missal did not arrive until after Ash Wednesday.)

    Ignoto, you are correct, as to what the missal says. Next year we'll sing the antiphons.

    I have never made any secret of the fact that this is my first year being entirely responsible for planning the music at my parish. I wasn't expecting to have this kind of responsibility until I was finished with school and my learning curve has been extremely steep.

    Thankfully, my pastor understands this and has already told me that I'm going to make the occasional mistake while I learn and that it's ok.

    However...your comment wasn't a collegial attempt to bring something to my attention...it was a swipe at me. I'm not sure why you found that necessary, and I don't know what your intentions were, but the result of your post is that I will hesitate in the future to post things I'm doing, or questions I have on this forum.

    Now I've already spent more energy on this issue than I wanted to. You have shared your newfound information. I thanked you for it. Let's move on.
    Thanked by 1Ignoto
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    If nothing else, the Attende Domine should be sung for the imposition of the ashes.

    But above all, a bit of common sense needs to be exercised in choosing appropriate music.
    Thanked by 1Ignoto