Colloquium 2013
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I'd love to see it rotate...Sure, there are areas that accommodate more people...but there are those who will come no matter where it is...and there are those who will only come if it isn't cost prohibitive. I'd love to see it at least rotate between east and west....but even, perhaps, West, Midwest, Northeast, and South.
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Charles, the reason why I am making this heart-felt plea to come to Laredo is that we have not been exposed to genuine Sacred Music. The last time we had anything that constitutes genuine Sacred Music was when the Schola from Assumption Seminary visited one of the local parishes back in February.
The only time we have had any kind of "music" seminars is during the annual diocesan conference. Unfortunately, when Peter Kolar and David Kauffman showed up, it was mostly to promote their compositions. They said next to nothing about what the Church regards as Sacred Music.
When we did have a diocesan choir come together for the 10th anniversary Mass, the music was just awful. The Mass took place on the Solemnity of the Transfiguration, but, you could not tell, based on the music used (which ran the gamut from the SLJ to Pescador de Hombres).
Having Colloquium on the border would also be a good opportunity for choirs from the Mexican side of the Rio Grande to learn what sacred music really means. Maybe there could be two tracks, one for English speakers and another for Spanish.
Even if Colloquium would go to San Antonio, I am certain that there would probably be a chance for many of us to go. I just think that maybe CMAA should go to where there is the most need. -
I'm okay with San Antonio, BG. Great convention town.
And I also endorse the Spanish component need. -
Although Minneapolis-St. Paul is both the heartland of and perhaps somewhat dominated by Scandanavian (mainly Lutheran) choral tradition, the choral music of the area only enriched much further by the marvelous Catholic presence in the form of the Cathedral of St. Paul (Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minnesota) and St. Olaf Catholic Church in St. Paul, as well as the Basilica of St. Mary in Minneapolis. Add to that the rich English music tradition found at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral in Minneapolis, several other protestant churches with outstanding music programs and organs, as well as great public and private universities, colleges, and seminaries – and you have a veritable sacred choral music gold mine.
Professional choral ensembles include the Rose Ensemble, Cantus, VocalEssence, the Minnesota Chorale, National Lutheran Choir, and (until its disbanding) Dale Warland Singers (many of whom now populate the other groups). Matthew Curtis, known to Colloquium XXII participants through his ChoralTracks recordings of the repertoire, hails from LaCrosse, Wisconsin, studied vocal music at the University of Minnesota and sang with the Rose Ensemble prior to joining Chanticleer. The whole area is rife with outstanding choral music programs, both public and high-school based. For organists, one could probably schedule three days of organ-crawls in the area and still not cover all the excellent instruments.
Come to the Twin Cities in June and you'll not be disappointed.
Thanked by 1Ryan Murphy -
CH, it is precisely the reasons that you stated which makes me want to reiterate my plea. You are fortunate to have a wealth of sacred music in your parts. South Texas, on the other hand, is not. Colloquium would be bring much-needed exposure to sacred music that our priests, choirs and parishes need.
In the case of the Twin Cities, CMAA would be preaching to the choir; in our case, CMAA would be breaking new and necessary ground. -
I had a very nice stop in the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport on my way back from this year's Colloquium! What a fantastic airport! Harpists playing in the middle of the afternoon! I wish my next flight had been canceled so I could have just stayed in that airport longer! -
benedictgal, and others:
Unfortunately, out in the suburbs and anywhere else in the Twin Cities, save for the Cathedral and other two major Catholic churches, the situation is pretty widely awful for Catholic music, unless you are a lover of P&W, contemporary, progressive, sacro-pop. More often than not, even in the larger churches, what we here might wish were prevalent is only offered at one Mass a week. Like it or not, for the most part, Catholic music here is largely "protestanty" (to steal a word from another thread), owing in part to the presence of strong singing traditions of area Protestants.
As for preaching to the choir, there are many choirs that need the preaching pretty much everywhere. Even in Salt Lake City, it would seem that there was some preaching to the choir, as well as some choir preaching to the attendees. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that, just because there is a venue with the attitude and facilities favorable to excellence in Catholic sacred music (which seems to be what had happened in the past) that it does not have importance and influence far beyond the walls wherein the Colloquium takes place.
On the other hand, I sympathize with the situation in Laredo because of its proximity to Mexico. I only wonder whether the lack of suitable Spanish sacred music there far exceeds the lack of suitable sacred music of any sort in the trenches around the Twin Cities - or any other major city.
Of course Ben and I would love to have a Colloquium in the Wisconsin-Minnesota area, for the simple reason that we might actually be able to attend it, when otherwise factors severely limit participation at any distance (definitely a factor for me). Whether the final seclection is in the northern midwest or in southern Texas, I trust that the powers that be will make a judicious selection for the next Colloquium.
Chuck -
Chuck:
There is no real sacred music down here, neither in English nor in Spanish. Latin is virtually non-existent, especially at the diocesan level. During the White Mass for the Healthcare Professionals, a group called "Amigos de Jesus" provided the "performance" of music for the liturgy, music that was neither sacred, let alone appropriate for the Holy Sacrifice.
There are talented choir members; unfortunately, the only exposure they get is from whatever the latest offering from OCP brings. Across the Rio Grande, Nuevo Laredo faces the same problem, just in Spanish. On our side, it's a bilingual problem.Thanked by 1CHGiffen -
There's a lot to consider when scheduling the Colloquium. Of course, we want as many people to attend as possible, but we also want people different people to attend. I think the way to do that is to consider the two biggest challenges to those who are attending: 1. Cost. 2. Time. I agree with Cantate that it would be wonderful to see this excellent event travel around the country so as many different people as possible attend. Another consideration would be, if I were involved in planning, trying to locate the event around a Hub airport, which tend to be cheaper to fly into. If someone has to have two layovers to get to their destination, that adds dramatically to the cost. However, a city like Minneapolis is a huge Delta hub...Dallas is an American hub....Chicago and Houston are huge United hubs. Places like Pittsburgh are great...but the bigger the city, the more likely they are to be a hub, the lower the airfares are likely to be, the more likely more people will be able to attend. Just my two cents.
Adam S. -
Why is Chris Allen the only one making sense here? The low humidity choice is SoCal. Anaheim... or San Diego?
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Yes, Gavin, there is one, Our Lady of the Atonement.
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MaryAnn, Laredo has dry heat. Plus, we do have the added incentive of making this a truly international event by having choir members and musicians from Mexico attending. This could actually be something unique.
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I vote for San Diego!
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MACW,
I know me and my ideas are a bit, uh off at first glance. But actually the suggestion and motivation I have for the Rome destination really burns true within me. Hearing what I've heard coming from all the choirs under Wilko, Horst (oh, the Vierne!), Bill and Cecilia Nam in just six days, it's stunning. And what makes the idea even more of a mandate for me? That a CMAA Colloquium Choir is a "We, the people" enterprise and concept.
Other than that, yeah, San Diego and New Orleans, maybe Savannah or Charleston all work for me. Thanks for the message. -
Benedictgal, (I love that moniker, btw)
San Diego is also minutes from Mexico. We get people coming up from Baja for mass every Sunday, and there's an active sacred music culture (small but active) in Tiajuana. -
Ok, admittedly Rome would be tops. Dare to dream! C'mon, Arlene- what say you??Thanked by 1Ryan Murphy
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Surely, a Colloquium in Rome might enrich those in the heart of the Roman Catholic Church. But, given the difficulties that most of us would have to surmount to get to Rome, would that truly be that much of an enrichment for Catholic Churh Music in America? I seriously doubt it, exept for the elect few that could make such a journey.
On the other hand, the CMAA might put together a smallish Schola Cantorum to make such a trip, for the purpose of showing what real music can come from the States.
Chuck
Edit: Oops, how could i forget the Church (and School) of St. Agnes in St. Paul!! -
Vegas. What could go wrong?
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... but seriously, isn't there a good early music choir in Albuquerque? Not Sacred Music, necessarily, but locationwise it may be an interesting option.
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... oh, and if you really want to have a great effect on Sacred Music in a diocese that needs it, come to beautiful Fresno, the town you'll love to leave.
There's a nice little schola for one Mass at one parish there, which is constantly on the edge, but emphasis is on the little. -
Speaking of the Twin Cities, when I visited St. Agnes a few years ago, I seem to remember they had an excellent program as well. Their music and liturgy never really suffered as far as I can tell, as Msgr. Schuler simply followed the directives of Vatican II without "interpretations". And they had excellent donuts after Mass, btw. The Cathedral music program there looks excellent as well - their schedule is posted online. Great suggestion. I have read that the Midwest was the liturgical experiment ground in the 60's (thanks to Dolly Dearden et al), and it also seems to be leading the way to undo the damage, one non-liberal bishop after another.
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MaryAnn, the point about having it in Laredo is that we have nothing that passes for sacred music down here. The other advantage is that, unlike San Diego, our downtown is linked to Nuevo Laredo's downtown by a pedestrian bridge.
I do not know if any of you have been to Mass in Mexico, but, the times that I have ventured into Nuevo Laredo for Mass, the music has been dreadful. Either they use leaflets with strange songs or they borrow the OCP drek from the stateside parishes.
The other thing is that OCP seems to make a strong push down here, especially with its Parish grants. One mission was awarded an OCP grant and the music the youth group "performed" during the Confirmation Mass was dreadful. The kids also did not know when they were supposed to play the pieces.
Going to places like the Twin Cities, San Diego and the like might be grand, but, it's the folks who have NEVER been exposed to sacred music who would benefit the most. In the posts promoting the other destinations, you all have glossed over the choirs and the music located in these areas. That is all good and well, but, if you want to get the message out to the rest of the country, maybe moving out of the comfort zone should be in order. -
Bgal, I promise the sacred music scene here in SD is small and struggling. We're in the archdiocese of LA, remember, and sacred liturgy has been at best kept simmering. Catholics here have had to endure the (nuts and) fruits of LA's innovatove liturgical vision for decades. It's a ready mission field for sacred music.
Over and above our American corner of the Church, I do think Rome is most compelling, provided people can raise funds to get there.
The financial angle is daunting for me personally, but if I had enough time I wouldn't hesitate to ask people to help me get to Rome.
'CMAA hits Rome' would be a very worthy project/trip. Attendees would be incredibly edified and blessed by such a trip. And we would be able to demonstrate that Americans (and a brilliant Dutchman) are capable of bringing something beautiful to bring to the table, so to speak.
I'm putting my dreams toward Rome sweet home. -
I'm Scots/American, MACW, not a Dutchman.
;-)
Wish I were that Dutchman! And BTW, do we HAVE to chant "Table of Plenty?" Mom? -
I suppose I am still hopeful that the CMAA can make its way to South Texas. Maybe I should secretly record what happens down here so that y'all can hear my point.
All you have to do is log on to www.khoy.org and listen to the Cathedral Sunday Mass broadcast. It starts at 11:30AM CST. Then you will get a good idea of why I am making my pleas. -
Ok, what place DOESN'T have horrible music?
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Perhaps Heaven.
Yet somehow I'm not sure I want the next Colloquium to be held there... still have a few more things to do down here. -
I'm sure that the decision as to where Colloquiums are held will not be determined based on where has the worst music... I imagine that logistics like housing and transportation and other available facilities will more be the determining factors.
Perhaps those who strongly want it held in a certain location could do preliminary investigation of the geographic area as regarding the above criteria for 250+ people? -
La Posada Hotel & Suites is located literally across the street from San Agustin Cathedral and is also right next to International Bridge I in downtown Laredo. The San Agustin Ballroom has a capacity for 300; the Zaragoza Room for 150 and there are other breakout rooms that can be used for the different sessions. The hotel does offer shuttle service to the Laredo International Airport. La Posada is also able to work with groups who are rate conscience. The diocese usually uses the hotel for the dinner before the Chrism Mass.
San Agustin Cathedral has an organ and a choir loft. It retains the Altar rail and thus, celebrating Mass in the Extraordinary Form would not be a problem. St. Peter the Apostle Church, located in the western end of Downtown also retained its pristine condition and is also conducive to Mass in the EF. It is within walking distance of both the hotel and the Cathedral. It, too, has an organ.
Laredo is located at the end of IH-35 and lies roughly 150 miles southwest of San Antonio and 150 miles due east of Corpus Christi on Highway 59/44. It is also about 150 miles northwest of McAllen (US Hwy 83). Our airport takes in flights from American Eagle and Continental Express. American Eagle flies in from DFW and Continental Express from Houston.
I used to be the project coordinator for our local convention and visitors bureau so I pretty much have a good idea of the lay of the land. -
I forgot to add that if participants were interested in taking a field trip around town to have a workshop in one of the Spanish-language parishes (there is a beautiful Gothic inner-city parish that has an organ and is also conducive to celebrating Mass in the EF), arrangements can be made for charter bus transportation.
Furthermore, the convention and visitor's bureau will also host a complimentary Ojo Rojo Welcome Reception on the first night of the Colloquium! The event would be at the host hotel. -
Charles in CenCA wrote:
have a Colloquium in the Vatican and Rome ...
and:
... the glorious sound of the Westminster Anglicans who live, breathe, eat and sleep chant and choral tradition. And we American choristers pay thousands of dollars apiece year after year to come and sing gloriously ...
Minor Point
The Westminster Anglicans live, breath, eat and sleep Anglican chant (lovely stuff). The Westminster Catholics ditto Gregorian chant. I believe the Holy Father didn't just appreciate the former. I don't want to go into the personnel cross-over as that would just complicate things.
Substantive Point
You could split the distance between the US and Rome and try the English Catholic thing at Spode Music Week one of these years, Charles. We sing mass every day (chant and choral), and conclude with a major setting we’ve prepared over the week – this year the Bruckner Mass in E minor. The week also includes a choral work prepared for an end-of-week concert (this year the Daniel-Lesur Cantique de Cantiques); optional orchestral stuff; lectures, recitals, composers' workshop, daily sung Compline, ad-hoc music making into the small hours and a members’ concert.
All for the equivalent of about $560 at today’s mid-rate. That’s all in, BTW – bed, all meals, activities. You just have your bar bill to settle at the end of the week. The course is family friendly: there are children’s activities and significant discounts to encourage their attendance. The chaplain is an ex-Oxford music fellow, ably assisted this year by a retired priest-musician from Westminster Cathedral; a newly minted Dominican priest who’s a mean trumpeter; and a Dominican Brother who I’m told is a decent cellist. The Chairman is a bass from the Royal Opera House and the Secretary works on the music side of Oxford University Press.
Not that I’m encouraging you and Wendy to skip Colloquium, you understand ... but the details are here ;-)
ps for any students reading this, a limited number of scholarships is available (see the link).
Thanked by 1CHGiffen -
Let me offer a suggestion: like any organization which relies entirely on volunteers, the CMAA goes where there's help. If you want the Colloquium in Texas, or Detroit, or Mars, then start doing the legwork. Look for locations, make contacts, check out ameneties, investigate costs. You'll improve the chances 100 fold.
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Carl D, I think that I just began the preliminary legwork. What a prospective host hotel does is request the occupancy report from the previous host hotel to determine what the room pick up was. Then, they will work with the meeting planner.
I floated a trial balloon to see what the feasibility would be to have the Colloquium come to Laredo. La Posada Hotel & Suites would be the ideal location because it is right across the street from San Agustin Cathedral and it also has plenty of meeting room space, dining facilities and other excellent amenities (not to mention two full-service restaurants). The hotel can accommodate the participants for a week's stay. The Director of Sales told me that they have the availability and the meeting space for 2013. They would also be willing to pick up participants at the airport. They would also be willing to assist with transportation to visit other parishes in the event participants want to see the older churches and use them for singing.
The rate is also very attractive: a high-end hotel for $82 a night. Furthermore, the Laredo CVB hosts a complimentary Ojo Rojo welcoming reception for convention groups. I think that the Colloquium members would definitely enjoy it.
As I said earlier, I used to be the project coordinator for the convention and visitors bureau.Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst -
I sure hope not. That's way too far for East Coast/Eastern Midwest people.
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Well, I feel stupid for even making the inquiries; however, I am quite committed to trying to get Colloquium down here and I took Carl D's challenge to heart. Now, I just have egg on my face. :(
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My strong guess is that the Colloquium will stay in Salt Lake for many years to come but this is only a guess.
If it was that successful in SLC, I could see it being used almost like a home base - returning quite often - but I don't think it would be a good idea to have the Colloquium there constantly. As others have said, it's a long distance for many people to travel. For the best success, I'd think moving around would work better since more people could be reached. -
Evidently, Paul Ford wrote that it will be at SLC next year. :( :( :(
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I'm not going to complain as it was quite nice there. A little on the expensive side for me, but still well worth it. Considering that in the past there's been a pattern of doing it two times in one place, then moving on, it wouldn't surprise me either. I do, however, hope that the next (assuming 2013 is in SLC) would be in a different location.
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No egg whatsoever, b-gal. Your legwork and energy is exactly what the organization needs, IMHO.
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