Desperation as usually at church
  • MichaelDickson
    Posts: 419
    1. All change is sudden, no matter how small. At some point, the change must occur and in an instant, something is different from what it was before.


    True, but there's still a difference between 5mph and 100mph.

    2. It depends on who is pushing for the changes.


    Absolutely.

    3. If we are introducing change slowly so that "people won't notice as much," then aren't we essentially lying to the faithful?


    I don't think so. And I don't think the point is to keep them from noticing, but to give them something familiar along with the new, so that they don't feel like the rug has been completely pulled out from under them. That's when they start reacting badly.

    Pulling the rug is very tempting, and in some sense it is the 'right' thing to do, but in my (admittedly limited) experience, it does not achieve the desired goal.

    That said, some changes should be immediate (in my opinion). For a while, in a former parish, I played organ but was not the person who selected the music. There were weeks when the person who did select it was not there. On those occasions, she handed me a list of suggestions then said that the final choice was up to me. Funny how 'City of God' and 'One Bread One Body' never got selected in those weeks. That was an immediate change.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368


    There is a dynamic which, to some considerable extent, becomes a factor with unpredictable import when change, for better or worse, is being contemplated or undertaken. It is that of the chemistry, the innate charm, the almost irresistable appeal enjoyed by some persons, which really makes irrelevant the objective quality or desirablilty of what they are introducing. Where some of us might have to work slowly, convince, educate, catechise, teach, and 'bring along', etc., certain charmed persons have no need of such diplomacy. I speak of those who have PPS (PiedPiperSyndrome). Very often they are not terribly well-informed or expert - they may even be laughably lacking in sacred musical education. Their personal appeal, however, is such that it sells whatever they are proposing; it even effortlessly overcomes any reservations or objections. Such persons may be introducing chant, or they may be introducing musical arsenic. It makes little difference what they are introducing because what people are attracted to is the charm of such 'pied pipers' who seem effortlessly to insinuate themselves into the good graces of most people, and, most importantly, pastors. Everyone may not 'fall for' such charm, but the majority will usually become bewitched and the person almost impossible to counter or dislodge. Their charms even work on pastors and priests who would resist the best diplomacy of most of us.

    Such people are formidable. Most of us have to do it the hard way. Our consolation prize, though, is that 'doing it the hard way' gets superior results in the 'long run' and what we teach will have deeper roots and be more deeply appreciated.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,947
    Well, there's charm (which relies more on interpersonal interaction) and then there's charisma (which more intensely radiates from the self).

    Narcissistic people can be charming and/or charismatic. But not all charming or charistmatic people are narcissists. (When a narcissist shines his or her light on you, you can feel the warmth - and that's how narcissists work their magic. A non-narcissistic charismatic/charming person can help you feel like you are radiating, rather than shone upon. The difference can be slippery to distinguish. Add to this mix that that the Catholic church attracts people who are attracted to complex rules-based systems and who feel at a disadvantage in navigating the shoals and eddies of interpersonal dynamics, and you have a formula for frustration....)
    Thanked by 4M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen CharlesW Gavin
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,465
    I am suspicious of charming people. I mean, nothing wrong wit it, but some people who are heavy on the charm can be fake. I had a choir member who was a charm girl. She went on and on in great enthusiasm about what she wanted to do for the choir...i gave her a small task to do...when i asked her about it weeks later she made excuses as to why it was not done...she never did it and shorly thereafter left the choir.
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn CharlesW Gavin
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    ghmus, we have that same sort of personality rampant among our cathedral's singing staff - people just a weeee bit too happy. Those more taciturn church musicians of the area accredit it to their formerly being members of the local university's glee club.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    All this talk of charm makes me think it is time for a reread of Brideshead Revisited, or break out the TV series discs which are practically the same as the book. Avoid the movie like it has a SARS culture on the disc. :)
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,947
    Here you go:

    http://philokales.tumblr.com/post/27215755238/brideshead-revisited-anthony-blanche-on-art-and
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I have heard it said that smiling makes your opposition uneasy. They can't tell what you are up to.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Yes, that way they don't know when it's coming.
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