trentonjconn

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The argument as you structure it above would logically mean that Catholics who attend only the Ordinariate Mass are schismatics.

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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Can one accept the requests for reform as laid out in SC, accept the validity of the N.O., but argue that it was not a proper response to the request and that further reform is necessary? Is that not an acceptable position? You seem to argue that c…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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My point, Mark, is that you are making some very severe claims and coming to extreme conclusions. I don't have any ill will toward you and I hope that I am being civil. It just seems uncharitable and, really, unfounded to say that all Latins mu…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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Yet the FSSP has been permitted for their entire existence to only observe the old rites? That seems inconsistent.

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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I understand your opinions on this matter, but you are taking your own subjective approach to this issue and making some extremely heavy-handed conclusions which are a far cry from what the Church has to say about these things.

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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"The reform of the Church's liturgy is obligatory on everyone who wishes to be in full communion with the Church because it was decreed by an ecumenical council and a particular liturgical form implementing that decreed reform was approved…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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"...to reform the liturgy in such a way that the revised liturgy would supplant what preceded it." I don't know that we can claim with any certainty that specifically the N.O. or even generally any reform was absolutely intended to …

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
Any OF Latin Masses that sing All the Chant Propers?
To address this more fully than in my earlier post, we always sing the propers at Mass. Our setting of the ordinaries varies by season, but that setting is always chant (English during OT, various Latin settings the rest of the year). Sung English C…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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Truly, I think many aspects of SC are embodied in today's celebrations of the Old Mass in a way which was not seen often before VII. In most celebrations I've been to, the people joyfully sing the responses. Chanted ordinaries are used, an…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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Of all the things to prioritize concerning orthodoxy, how on earth does it make sense to prioritize guesswork at whether or not groups reject VII? I can think of dozens and dozens of cases in which groups and practically entire regional churches are…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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.

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
Sola Liturgia? Will we see TLM Protestants?
Francis, what is unacceptably modern about it? I am glad to accept the '62, I'm merely suggesting that stopping at the '65 reform-wise would (I think) have resulted in far less division in the long run.

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
Sola Liturgia? Will we see TLM Protestants?
Give us the '65! If you say it totally in Latin, it is basically the '62. In its base form, it still requires a bit of Latin, but can be largely in the vernacular. I see it as the perfect via media, with enough in it to satisfy both trads …

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
Sola Liturgia? Will we see TLM Protestants?
This is precisely the point I was trying to make in the RotR thread, Salieri. You are absolutely correct.

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
Sola Liturgia? Will we see TLM Protestants?
The Canons Regular of St. John Cantius are their own thing, and are not members of the FSSP. They are a great example of how the N.O. ought to look though. I much prefer the beginnings of the Mass to be said and sung from the chair (like they do at …

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
Any OF Latin Masses that sing All the Chant Propers?
We sing an English setting of Credo III every Sunday and solemnity, and have been doing so for a few years!

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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Amen to that.

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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(For the record, it is not my intent to come across as NO-bashing)

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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I understand that the TLM is not irreverent-proof. I have been to a few even in this day and age which I would consider sloppy, even if well-intentioned. However, a sloppy TLM is still in Latin. It still involves facing ad Deum. It still cannot be s…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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Ora, I'm not saying the OF can't be celebrated well. It can, and I have seen it done so a decent many times. What you described sounds lovely, and I'm sure that it is. However, you get to experience this because your clergy are dedica…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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In any case, the main problem with RotR is that which has been previously mentioned in this thread and ample times elsewhere: the most reverent, traditional celebration of the OF is just another option among other equally valid options. The personal…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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Can a bishop validly ban priests from wearing a style of chasuble or a maniple? Does this insanity actually have weight???

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
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Dad29, you bring up something worth pondering. Is RotR even possible without a living, breathing example of the old Mass to look toward and work from? How is a priest to be formed in proper ars celebrandi in an environment in which the old Mass hypo…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
Announcements before Mass: yea or nay
We have a lector go to the ambo five minutes before Mass to welcome visitors, lead a prayer for vocations, and request the silencing of cell phones. After they're done, I play prelude. The bell is rung, and we jump straight into the processiona…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
It happened: Traditionis custodes (TLM crackdown) (Note: discussion is on hiatus.)
"...bishop announces such and such TLM groups will be allowed to continue but with a gradual phase-out, perhaps, such as a full TLM liturgical calendar for the rest of 2021. TLMs only on Sundays and solemnities in 2022 (weekdays must be Novus O…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
It happened: Traditionis custodes (TLM crackdown) (Note: discussion is on hiatus.)
Mark, simply chanting "the liturgical reform is irreversible" over and over does not prevent the next pope or the one three popes from now or twenty popes from now from doing a complete 180 and wiping this MP off of the map. If there'…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
Sola Liturgia? Will we see TLM Protestants?
It would seem, observing today's discussions, that Mark is certainly in the minority on this forum in approving wholesale of these changes, which is immensely reassuring to me. To be honest, it is surprising to encounter this sentiment here ins…

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
It happened: Traditionis custodes (TLM crackdown) (Note: discussion is on hiatus.)
Buddy, let's take a chill pill.

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
It happened: Traditionis custodes (TLM crackdown) (Note: discussion is on hiatus.)
.

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink
It happened: Traditionis custodes (TLM crackdown) (Note: discussion is on hiatus.)
Mark it still seems a stretch to me, especially since it contradicts any previously existing allowances (in regard to the rubrics of the '62 and any modifications made to them as of SP).

Comment by trentonjconn July 2021 permalink

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