Shortening of Widor Toccata No. 5
  • ajplafond
    Posts: 25
    It was requested for me to play the Widor Toccata 5 for a postlude. However, rather than 7-8 minutes, they want it cut down to around four. Is there any way this is usually​ done? (I would like to keep my fingers if that's at all possible.)
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    Just say: no, I'm sorry, but this is not an option / also, the whole piece will go by faster than you think.

    And at a reasonable tempo, I would think you would easily finish in under 7 minutes anyways.
    Thanked by 2MarkS ajplafond
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    I suspect someone imagines you can just omit extended passages that lack pedal parts. Or that you skip every other measure....
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Just cut out the insanely bombastic part at the end (sorry, organists... it's amazing up until that part, though), and say that's as short as it can be. ;)
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    You could cut the whole thing and replace it with John Cage's 4'33"
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    forget widor... play bach instead... play ANYTHING else instead!
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  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    Until you said it, I had not before realized that John Cage had written anything appropriate for liturgical use. Good to keep in mind.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • ajplafond
    Posts: 25
    Thinking about going with the Mass of John Cage...and I agree with the Bach suggestion too but at this point there's only two days left.
  • Matthew
    Posts: 31
    Play the introductory material up to the pedal entrance then skip to the double pedal section (the recap) and play to the end. Shortens it to the desired length.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW ajplafond eft94530
  • Antonio
    Posts: 43
    Does anyone have a similar suggestion for the Bach Fantasie BWV 572? I would like to perform it as postlude for the Solemnity of Ascension of Our Lord (in Brazil, the Feast is moved to the next sunday)? I play it in 10 to 11 minutes, but I think it's too much time for a postlude of a Mass finishing just before mid-day. I'm not sure which section should I shorten: if only the middle plein jeu-like section, and/or the initial and final ones.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Don't ever do this to any composition - even circus music like the Widor. An artist respects the integrity of any composer's music he considers worthy of performance (or, even, in some instances, unworthy). True musicians are not butchers. Of course, there is that genre of organ works of the renaissance and baroque which were written with internal cadences so that they could be shortened at will.
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  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Jackson,

    I take it you're not a fan of circuses?
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    True musicians are not butchers


    If you do a decent enough job of it, perhaps you can be considered a tailor/seamstress.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW StimsonInRehab ServiamScores
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Until you said it, I had not before realized that John Cage had written anything appropriate for liturgical use. Good to keep in mind.
    Very useful in Lent.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Chris -
    Not exactly a fan any more.
    Once, maybe.
    Still circus music belongs at circi, not at liturgy.

    Actually, the Widor isn't circus music, though in my sophomoric youth I so sneered it to be. It was many years (as in 'decades') before I would condescend to learn it. Played honestly on a worthy instrument it is the perfect closing voluntary for Ascension. Any piece I thought worth playing I would never countenance butchering - or, as Kathy suggests, 'tailoring'.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Interesting how many players ignore Widor's complaints about those who played it and do all the things he cautioned against.

    Famous last words by my organ professor about postludes. Hit the sforzando and lean on the Great with your elbows. They will never know the difference.
  • Antonio
    Posts: 43
    I rarely shorten a piece of written music. When they don't fit on a celebration time window, I prefer not to play it. But figurative similarity between the ascending motifs of the BWV 572 and the general mood of the Feast of Ascension of Our Lord called my attention to the point of trying to put it on the program. Based on Osborn comments, I will reconsider the shortening idea and play the piece completely.

    Anyway, I try to practice the principle that, in the liturgy, the music is an (important) element in subordination to the celebration, its circumstances and the benefit it might bring to the assistance. Playing unadulterated postludes (even the long ones) is, ceteris paribus, musically more correct, and might even please God more, but should not be something absolute nor above all other things to consider.
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 195
    There's an abridged version in here. It's set for two manuals and cuts out a chunk of the worst stuff.

    I had to play this instead of the original because I'm not good enough for the original, but my now-brother-in-law and sister INSISTED on it at their wedding. They gave me a year's warning, and I still barely got it prepared. It did sound OK when I did it, though.
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