Coughing in Choir
  • What is etiquette for this? I have done it thinking "O it won't be such a disturbance" but I go to hear other choirs where you can't hear a peep.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I don't know of any etiquette. Some of my people come when they should have stayed home and gotten well. I appreciate their dedication, but...
  • A water bottle can be of great help. Another issue to deal with would be burping: if one is supporting properly, the risk can be quite palpable.
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • Well I guess when your conductor doesn't let you take water into the cathedral...
    I do agree, and sometimes if you have cough drops in your pocket too (because they are discrete). In the many choirs of which I sing in, I bring water to as many of them as I can.
  • Would it be fair to ask what prompted the cough?
    What, um, was its motivation?
    It's message?

    _______________________

    Water bottles???
    In choir?????

    We do not imbibe during the sacred rites -
    especially if we are charged with leadership and example in them.
    (Smart cathedral choirmaster! He understands the choir's role and decorum in ritual.)

    It's amusing that since some now-wealthy fellow came up with bottled water everyone just has to carry some around with him and her compulsively and obsessively, mindlessly to swiggle on.

    How does that saying go? Was it water bottles in XIXth century Russia?
  • I had a cold at the time, so I couldn't really control it but I am one of the only first tenors so I couldn't really refuse to attend...
  • yes water bottles in choir - in time of need! we have received a special dispensation for them. I must say they're not often used, but sometimes.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Jack Daniels for the director/organist would be helpful.
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    I can't imagine not taking water with me. I have to drive about 90-100 km to get to choir, depending on the parish we sing at. Then one hour rehearsal before Mass, then Mass, then an hour to drive home. All told, 4 hours just to sing. I will need water, and most parishes have sinks but no water fountain, or if there is one, it is a long way from the choir loft. Of course, I drink only on arrival, sometimes between pieces during rehearsal, after the rehearsal and before Mass when we get 5 minutes quiet to compose ourselves, after Mass, and if necessary on the drive home. But not during the Mass itself. Going 4 hours without water isn't possible, nor is it safe due to a medical condition that requires that I stay well hydrated.

    I love chant, but if the choirmaster said "no water in the choir", he'd lose this chorister in a flash.
  • tsoapm
    Posts: 79
    I didn’t know there was a restriction on water. I’m a convert: all I worked out was that the one-hour Eucharistic fast didn’t include water and medicines. What did I miss exactly, something I can find in canon law?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    What did I miss exactly, something I can find in canon law?


    I don't think it has anything to do with Eucharistic fasts. Some object to inevitable spills and the lazy varmints leaving water bottles everywhere and not taking them with them. It's a housekeeping thing.
  • It's not just 'housekeeping', it's a serious matter of proper behaviour and decorum during liturgy. The choir should be the exemplars of these, seeing as how they are leaders and good examples, both musically and behaviour-wise, of due and devout worship. It is just plain rude, crude, tacky, mindless, and disgusting to see choir members, of all people, who can't get through mass without the constant cavalier and insouciant guzzling from water bottles. The worst thing about choirs in west galleries and other places is that they have no sense that they are actually a part of the divine proceedings - they are only concerned with singing the right thing at the right time. They should be as involved in the ritual as the most devout person in the front row of the nave. They have no leave or license to behave otherwise.

    Some seem to think that because they are way up in a choir gallery, or over to one side out of view, and are entitled choir members, they don't need to act like they are 'in church' and at mass - well, they are in church, sacred rites are in progress, and they do... because they are choir.

    With very little license, if you wouldn't do it whilst serving at the altar or sitting behind that front pew screen in the nave, don't do it in the choir, wherever your choir sings from. It is your high duty and calling to 'make his praise to be glorious' in mind, heart, body, soul, and voice, and to be an example of such in every way humanly possible during the sacred rites of the Church.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Thank you Miss Goodbody! LOL.

    I keep water at the organ. I sing with the choir while playing and directing. Doing that for multiple masses really dries out my throat. Given that the air conditioning in the loft is antiquated and ineffective, I have also threatened to play naked until it's fixed. ;-)
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • >> I sing with the choir while playing and directing. Doing that for multiple masses really dries out my throat.
    agee; and the one cold air return for our entire chapel is located on the back wall of the choir loft. When that wave of incense hits your throat - yikes.
    I don't see it as a matter of casual and insouciant guzzling. I have to see it as a matter of being able to sing at all, sometimes.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Liam
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,948
    The traditional Catholic solution to this perceived problem: maintain custody of the eyes.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    That's the point. We are not awash in water guzzlers. We live in a dusty city and it gets into the building. The ancient hvac system seems to remove none of it. Add allergy seasons - spring and fall - to that and water is a necessity. Our city is one of the top 10 cities for allergies, and some years it has been number one.
    Thanked by 2Liam mmeladirectress
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    tsoapm wrote:
    I didn’t know there was a restriction on water. I’m a convert: all I worked out was that the one-hour Eucharistic fast didn’t include water and medicines. What did I miss exactly, something I can find in canon law?

    Your information is right: see canon 919: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P39.HTM
    Thanked by 2tsoapm CHGiffen
  • tsoapm
    Posts: 79
    Thank you; I’m all for decorum, and frequently wish that our choir were more decorous (+1 for custody of the eyes, but we should all try to do our part), but a blanket ban on water seems somewhat excessive. I don’t feel that when I do drink water I do it in such a way that it causes my brother to stumble, and solely with the aim of singing well and keeping my throat in good condition.

    But why would a special dispensation be required? I still feel I must be missing something.

    I often wonder why the Eucharist fast was reduced to one hour, a period so convenient as to be practically non-existent.
    Thanked by 1Spriggo
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    I could understand a severe-minded choir director imposing his own rules to discourage water-drinking, out of solidarity with the faithful in the pews who aren't drinking water; or I could understand wanting to avoid the use of plastic water bottles if the choir is highly visible, because they're tacky.

    At the parish where I work, it is routine to put out a paper cup of water for the elderly priest celebrating Mass, so this is really not a matter from which anyone should take scandal. The Church has no rule against drinking water in the hour before receiving holy communion, so it's not a matter of needing a dispensation from pastoral authority.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Spriggo
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    He said "insouciant guzzling," heh heh.
    Besides, isn't that a bit redundant?
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • >> why would a special dispensation be required? I still feel I must be missing something.
    'special dispensation' was used lightly, I don't know the proper font for that.... the word from the pulpit (my paraphrase) was in the neighborhood of 'unless you are a toddler, or a member of the choir, I don't want to see any water bottles in here.' Even with 'hydration' being so fashionable these days, I note that he only had to say it once.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 892
    Not a church thing, but I recall attending a choir concert back in my college days, where they passed out free cough drops to the audience to prevent coughing from ruining the live recording. Unfortunately...the sound of cough drops being unwrapped throughout the concert ruined the recording.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 685
    Our choir has a warm up period just before Mass. Not only do we practice our music, we do breathing and vocalizations exercises and so hopefully all the coughing is out of the way. I don't know that I would worry too much about it, after all its no more disturbing then a errant cell phone ringing, a careless few who don't know how to raise and lower the kneeler quietly or any other of a number of disturbances encountered.
  • Anyone can just happen to cough once... or once and a half.
    Two coughs require a genuflection.
    Three coughs?
    For these you need to excuse yourself and repair to the wash room, or an empty class room, or anywhere out of ear shot and cough all you want.

    (Actually, maybe only half purple?)
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • Two coughs require a genuflection.


    to whom?
  • To whom are made all genuflections.
    Maybe striking the breast would do as well.
  • Oh, good.

    I thought, for a nano-second, that you might be referring to those choirdirectors and self-appointed members of the etiquette police who feel that they, themselves, are the center of the known universe.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,948
    No, they should get the stink-eye....
  • TCJ
    Posts: 968
    Do to allergies and having to sing from the bench, I cough a lot more than I would like, but people just have to deal with it because if I stay away because of a nagging cough, the organ is silent. I use water if I have to.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    The question was about coughing not water-guzzling. The question ought to be: are there significant points in the liturgy where coughing is a distraction. There are important points of silence in the liturgy where even a light cough would break an important silence, notable are the elevation, after the lesson, after a beautiful piece of music. I instruct my singers that immediately after the conclusion of a piece they remain absolutely silent for a moment, not to break the mood of the piece prematurely; don't cough, don't rustle your music, don't move around.
  • Thanks Dr. Mahrt. That is what Dr. Cichocki also stresses when he conducts (and he yells!), not to rustle music before and a few seconds after a piece has ended.