What skills should every sacred musician have?
  • Priestboi
    Posts: 155
    Hi everyone!

    I am in the process of creating some courses for my diocese and would like your input.

    What should any sacred musician know? Any particular standards they should be achieveing etc.?

    This is a huge part of my prep, please feel free to rant wisely :)
  • tsoapm
    Posts: 79
    Who are you including in the category of musician? I certainly wouldn’t call myself a musician, but I’m a chorister – would these be skills that I should have too?
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Priestboi
  • Competency in choral conducting, evoking sound, vocal technique
    Thanked by 2Kathy Priestboi
  • If by "sacred musician" you mean something like a music director:

    -How the voice works in the human body/proper vocal technique
    -Organ performance and accompaniment, including instruction and resources for "transitioning pianists"
    -Choral conducting
    -Understanding of the Church's liturgical documents
    -Knowledge of choral repertoire from chant through contemporary

    If I think of others, I'll list them too. I have to get ready for a funeral now. God bless your efforts!
    Thanked by 1Priestboi
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    What songbird says, plus organ study. Every diocese should really have some sort of (subsidized) study for pianists to learn organ. I wish we'd do it here. I'd love the extra "complication" to my schedule to teach some!
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    Caleferink has it right, except the order....I'd put 'understanding of liturgical docs' first and qualify 'contemporary' with some language like Pius X's 'holy, beautiful, universal.'
    Thanked by 1Priestboi
  • A lively faith. [No, I don't mean a charismatic faith].
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    1. Willingness to serve: The liturgy; those under your charge; the faithful; your pastors; the magisterium and its legislation; and overall, Jesus the Christ.
    2. Discernment: what will constitute healthy practicum in your local parish circumstances; of the counsel of liturgical legislation as it applies locally and universally; of constituent qualities such as "sacred, universal, beautiful, and...musical, liturgical, pastoral..."; of interpersonal dynamics of all stakeholders; of tradition and innovation.
    3. Competency: excellent sight singing capabilities; theory in practice (ie. hearing of scores "off the page"); accompaniment/direction skills; musicological skills as commonly applied to vocal/choral pedagogy, literature, traditions in the "sacred" genres.
    4. Demeanor: strong but not overbearing; forward thinking as regards short/long term goals; preparedness and resolve; complimentary; inspirational and informed.
  • I should have prefaced my thoughts with "in no particular order"
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  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    {for when humor becomes appropriate in this thread}

    Be independently wealthy.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Another good question might be, what skills are you willing to pay for?
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    What is the time frame for those courses? In Germany, we have courses for church musicians, which take two years if taken part-time beside your usual work. Prospective music students sometimes take these courses before going to the university or conservatory while they are at high school. Some dioceses also offer them as a full-time study in one year.

    These courses comprise weekly lessons with the deanery's church musician and centralized workshop weeks (in my archdiocese once a year in Easter week). In my diocese the topics examined are: organ, improvising, piano, singing, conducting, ear training, composition, score reading and figured bass, liturgics, hymnology, music history, organology.

    I suppose that is about the maximum of what you can expect to teach without sending them to a university or conservatory.
    Thanked by 1Priestboi
  • Gosh, Adam. While you're at it, why don't you just recommend Rules for Radicals?
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • In no particular order, the following comes to mind (for a parish or cathedral of means desiring a full time choirmaster and organist (whether in one person or two) -

    1. Skill and experience as a choral director versed in everything from plainchant, organum, polyphony, and more notable modern choral music.

    1a. A like knowledge of congregational literature and a skill in teaching it.

    2. Skill and experience as an organist versed in everything from the Buxheimer orgelbuch, renaissance and baroque literature, to Tournemire, Messiaen, and beyond.

    2a. In addition to command of the literature, and impressive ability to lead choir and congregation in their singing of anthems, ordinaries, and hymnody. Further, a respectable ability to improvise intelligent music both on a cantus firmus and freely.

    3. A professor's knowledge of sacred choral literature, historic and modern.

    4. A professor's knowledge of sacred organ literature, historic and modern.

    5. Skill and professional ease in building choirs, directing them, and nurturing them.

    6. Skill, respect, and diplomacy in relations with clergy. (Ditto, with choirs and people.)

    7. A passionate love of liturgy as it is understood and taught as normative by the Catholic Church's historic documents, councils, and popes.

    8. A love of each of one's choristers and a mature assessment of the unique value of each to the musical ministry.

    9. A shuddering repulsion of music that is unworthy of Catholic worship, and an indeflectible and infectious zeal for our musical and liturgical heritage.

    10. A very desirous quality would be that of communicating to clergy genuine respect, and of eliciting from clergy the same genuine respect as a professional whose sacred vocation and honourable expertise is church music.

    11. A person whose taste in music and its performance is impeccable.

    12. A person who loves children and can inspire them to sing and participate as how they may in the parish musical program.

    13. A person who can inspire a congregation (and a choir) to the heights of which they are objectively capable, will settle for nothing less - and be respected for it. Conversely, one who won't hear of the 'Catholics can't' mentality, nor have any truck with those who wish to be bound by it.

    14. A person who is always growing - spiritually, musically, intellectually, who doesn't get in ruts, and whose love of God and spiritual zeal are apparent in all that he or she does.

    Thus, I would assert, is pretty much 'ye complete Church choirmaster-organist'. I may have overlooked something needful, so....

    Perhaps I'll add to this later. These are some of the qualities and attributes which a choirmaster-organist should have. Some of them are character traits. Others are strictly professional qualifications. All are essential for worthiness in the worship of the All Holy.

    (The question, of course, was 'what qualifications should every sacred musician have; so it is evident that every parish cannot be so idealistically 'choosy'. Yet, taking these precepts as a paradigm, any parish can be guided by how well they can afford to and wish to meet such earnest and serious notions of the Church's music. If a paradigm cannot always and everywhere be realised, it can and should serve as an inspiration to do one's best in light of it.
  • Priestboi
    Posts: 155
    Thank you all for the fantastic ideas so far :) I shall be sure to implement them post-haste!

    I really love this community not only because you are all so willing to throw around ideas, but because you have such a great sense of humor!

    The focus of this course will be mostly to recruit new organists, but we definitely need to train current musicians, singers, as they literally come from nothing or have the minimal rudimentary training.

    Courses (there will need to be many) will run part-time over 5-8 weeks with more in-depth work being done at workshops.

    We will also be recruiting tutors to deal with the practical side and creating a bursary scheme to finance those who cannot afford a tutor to become an organist.

    I will be offering these courses online to make things easier.

    @Adam - Great reading ideas. How about "Think and Grow Rich", "The Art of the Start", "Eat Pray Love", "Essentialism", "WHY" and "Pride and Prejudice"?
  • Priestboi
    Posts: 155
    @tsoapm I would say that singers are included yes, as they are musicians in the fullest sense, but would obviously have a slightly different skill set. What are your thoughts?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    @tsoapm I would say that singers are included yes, as they are musicians in the fullest sense, but would obviously have a slightly different skill set. What are your thoughts?


    They do have different skills and often, a lack of understanding of instruments they don't play. I have noticed that when asked to play softer when I have the softest stop on the organ pulled with the shades closed.

    Keep in mind there are no perfect people, or musicians, either. All of us have areas that are strengths along with other areas that can be weaker.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    My experience of musician/singer suggests a briefer knowledge of applied music theory is often manifest post-grad. That is not a blanket indictment. Just make sure the singer/director knows that "stuff" as well as who Richard Miller and James McKinney are and the "schools" of choral/vocal pedagogy, ie. Christiansens, Noble, Shaw etc.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    Social skills. You either have to be normal enough to get normal people to relate to you, be able to fake being normal enough to get people to relate to you, or be charming enough that they're okay with your eccentricities.
  • Well said, Matthew -
    I especially like your third category.
  • JL
    Posts: 171
    No one has yet mentioned a proficiency in Latin (or, as applicable, Slavonic, Aramaic, etc.) Reading Cicero at sight isn't necessary, but an ability to translate an introit text, with the help of a dictionary as necessary, is highly desirable.

    Organists should be proficient in playing from figured (or occasionally undivided) bass, rather than relying on often questionable editorial editions. For that matter, every musician should be able to spot a bad edition, and, if necessary, to produce a good one.

    And EVERYONE should know that saying "singers and musicians" is akin to saying "Granny Smiths and apples"--and a good way of ensuring that better singers will never work for you.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    Christiansens, Noble, Shaw etc.


    You must add Salamunovich to the list if you intend to sing Chant. Remember that Shaw was a great, but he tended to diminish 'text' in favor of 'rhythm-discipline'. That's why his interpretation of Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is just a tad odd.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • Someone mentioned Latin. It should be unthinkable that a Catholic choirmaster has not at least minimal working knowledge of liturgical Latin, and be thoroughly familiar with multiple ritual texts.

    Too, I would add to my comment above that there should be a genuine desire on the part of pastors and people to garner a musician from whom they wish and expect to learn more about sacred music, and not just more, but much more. It you don't look up to your choirmasters as guides and teachers of sacred music, don't hire them. In too many situations clergy and people alike do not want a musician who will raise them up, but one whom they can drag down.

    This goes as well for musicians. If a musician does not have a genuine respect for his pastor, whom he expects to lift him up spiritually and liturgically, whom he admires as a 'rabbi' and spiritual guide, he shouldn't work there.

    Too many are just looking for a 'job' (they even trashily refer to it as that filthy little three letter word that begins and ends with 'g'). Likewise, too many are just looking for someone to do a 'job'. If there is not genuine and deep mutual respect for God-given vocation and learning, then neither is meant for the other.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    This list is depressing me. I feel like I should be fired.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Spriggo
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    This list is depressing me. I feel like I should be fired.


    It is a bit unrealistic. Most churches couldn't begin to pay for all those skills and abilities. Not to mention, there aren't that many musicians who have all those skills and abilities. I did note that no one specified walking on water as a desirable skill to have.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I am firing myself.
    Thanked by 2canadash Spriggo
  • Canadash -

    I admire what you are doing, and pray encouraging things about your parish.

    You shouldn't feel that way at all. Nobody expects that every musician in every church will meet the qualifications that I and others have proposed here. I think that they represent an ideal, a paradigm, a goal for those parishes which have the means. And, many are the parishes and cathedrals that do have the means, and then some! For them not to wish to have something resembling such musicians on their staff is to be gravely remiss in their priorites and shabby in their worship. (I have met a few Catholic cathedral music directors who weren't fit to direct music in a village church, and was literally astounded that they were where they were. I have met others who really know what to do and do it.)

    During the AGO's convention here a few months ago I ran into the musical director of a large and wealthy suburban Houston parish. He, a fairly young man of taste, was happily telling of the new 65 rank organ that they were getting, and he had just 'snatched up' the young man who had just won second place in the AGO's young artists competition to be his organist. This is exemplary. This is what every parish and cathedral which has the means should be spending that means on.

    We at Walsingham are blessed with deep pocketed benefactors and enjoy the best of music every Sunday and solemnity, have a full-time choirmaster and organist, and a liturgy that would make a very high Benedictine envious. To the extent that we may be out of the ordinary is something that is not flattering to the state of Catholic worship.

    About paradigms and ideals, and goals. Those who can and should exemplify at least an impressive portion of those ideals are an example to others. Those others, recognising that they haven't that talent, those qualifications and resources, can, nevertheless, be inspired by them, take their cue from them, and do the very best that they can. When bishop Lopes was ordained, and for the more recent institution of about fifty acolytes from throughout the Ordinariate, we had many visitors from around the US and Canada, and even Europe, who were thrilled at our music and liturgy. Now, many of our parishes are struggling, some don't even have their own property yet. But all of them were profuse in their appreciation of their cathedral's liturgy, music, and spiritual life. They said that it was a profound lesson in what was possible - and they will have gone home and coloured their own liturgy as how they may in the tinctures of their cathedral's. There are, of course, a few similar paradigms of the Roman rite scattered around the country. They should be emulated and learnt from. They are an encouragement and inspiration. That's what paradigms are for.

    And, so should it be everywhere in the Catholic Church, that those who have the means should have a liturgy and music which is of the highest order humanly possible. Those who can't, take their cue from the paradigm and do the best they can, encouraged by its light. So, no. Don't feel discouraged. The intent was to en-courage and to 'egg on'. You are doing your utmost - I know that! Let everyone do likewise. (I can think of some musicians who ought to be fired - but none them are or would be members of our forum.)

    ____________________________________

    I, myself, and, probably, a number of others here, am a beneficiary, and a glad one, of the knowledge and growth that I gained from men in parishes with outstanding music programs, and from being under the tutelage of Episcopal cathedral choirmasters, beautiful knowledge of which I would otherwise never have dreamed. Any of the hundreds of Catholic parishes that are going up nowadays, which can raise a few million dollars at the drop of a hat, should be ashamed, bitterly ashamed, if they don't have real Catholic music and Benedictine liturgy. For most, it's really not a matter of having or not having the treasure, but what they prefer spend it on.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • Canadash inspires me to offer a secondary slate of qualifications for village churches or those whose means and resources really are limited - meaning those which aren't cathedrals or parishes of means. So here, in no particular order, the following 'off the top of my head' - And, each may feel free to 'cherry pick' what may be useful to him or her.

    1. Take your work seriously, and!, expect it to be taken seriously - it is important.
    2. Be as familiar as you can about basic historical and modern 'classical' choral literature.
    3. Balance your choral efforts between easy and somewhat challenging pieces. There must always be at least one or two challenges in your choristers' folders - lest they sit on unearned laurels and don't take their work seriously - always be growing. Failure in this regard is fatal to choir morale, motivation, and performance. A dead choir sings dead music. And also! A dead choir doesn't attract new members!
    4. Respect profoundly your pastor, your choristers, and your congregation. Always speak in a positive and constructive manner, even when correcting errors and bad habits.

    5. Be able to play four part hymns with relative confidence.
    6. Choose ordinaries that you can accompany well and which your people can sing well (this doesn't mean insulting drivel and secular sounding rubish).
    7. Be (or get) familiar with the better composers of history and today, and let their music be your benchmark.

    8. Study what is done at your cathedral, or at parishes with commendable music programs in your area and emulate it as how you may.
    9. Learn the basics of good organ registration so that you don't have a 4' reed stop in the pedal against an 8' principal or flute on the great for hymns or ordinaries. (I've actually heard such - it is amazing the things untrained people do without even noticing that they are wrong amusing.)
    10. Hone your singing skills. These are very important in communicating how you want choral music to sound - and absolutely essential in teaching chant. Never, ever, teach chant by plunking out the melody on the piano or organ! - unless, that is, you really do want your chant to sound like the musical version of a Dick and Jane primer. You must be able to sing it.

    11. Choose tasteful organ literature. Even if you are not advanced, there is no end to very easy pieces for voluntaries or for to grace some part of the liturgy with.
    12. Be a patient tutor to your volunteer choir. Some inept musicians will attempt to mask their deficiencies with a scolding and harsh temperament intended to inspire awe and respect. Don't be one of those fakes. Always be honest about your ability, practice it to its fullest, and expect the very most from your choir of which they are capable - no more - and! no less.

    13. Don't allow your choir to be in charge. Not ever. Always assert your primacy - but do it with unfailing equanimity.
    14. Always have a vision of that to which you wish to progress. Ditto the choir and your parish liturgy.
    15. Don't ever settle into a rut. Always sprout new foliage.

    16. Keep your choir's liturgical space (be it somewhere up front or to the side, or in a west gallery) clean and neat. There is nothing worse than a junky choir space that doesn't say 'sacred space', 'worship', 'prayer', 'song', but is cluttered with books, stacked chairs, miles of electronic cords, electronic gadgets, and other paraphernalia. It should look like immaculate sacred worship space because that is what it is.
    17. To the limits of your knowledge and talents be a sacred musical sage to your choir, your pastor, and your congregation. Always teach the background and the spiritual purpose of any music that you are doing. This inspires respect towards you as a Church Musician, and is aedifying to your choir, pastor, and people.
    18. Attend as much as possible (your pastor my pay for this, or at least help out) Colloquia, musicians' workshops and conventions. Always take advantage of opportunities to advance your sacred musical knowledge and abilities.

    19. Know (or learn!) how to read chant notation and sing from it. This is something that should be second nature to every single Catholic. If at all possible teach and perform chant from the start as an a capella genre - because it is.
    20. Go to Fr Columba's chant workshops every summer at St Meinrad's Archabbey in the beautiful hills of southern Indiana. Fr Columba is one of the world's greatest living scholars of chant, from whom you may confidently learn to sing chant according to the most respectable and accurate current scholarship. You will also participate in the monastic liturgy, which is a lesson in itself.
    21. Learn at least some basics about confident choral conducting so that you can help your singers with breath control, diction, rhythm, and other aspects of convincing musicianship.
    22. Know how to pronounce Latin, and try to become very comfortable with the Latin ordinary - as well as a few other hymns, responsories, antiphons, and such - like the Lenten and Advent proses (which are actually responsories), and some basic chant hymnody.

    Last: There is an inexhaustible cornucopia of choral music of all levels on youtube. Listen assiduously to any composer, any piece, any period, any difficulty, Gregorian and Anglican chant, any choir, anything that you could want. This is an education, inspiration, and trove of ideas that is literally endless. You can learn much about your craft just by listening to how the masters and great choirs do it.

    Not as academic as the list up above, but friendly useful advice for village and small parish musicians. You may feel free to cherry pick what's meaningful in your situation.
  • I did note that no one specified walking on water as a desirable skill to have.

    Ahhh! Leave it to Charles to spot an omission of such magnitude! He is, of course, spot on in pointing it out. Whilst this would indeed be a valuable skill, especially in attracting new choir members who delight in signs and wonders, I (personally, mind you) can't see that it would have a noticeably beneficent effect on one's performance as a choirmaster. Perhaps Charles could elaborate on just what precise manner he thinks such aquatic panache would be needful for a Church Musician. It is, of course, altogether possible that this entire thing is pure speculation on his part.
  • tsoapm
    Posts: 79
    Well, I’m not sure whether I’m a singer who comes from nothing or if I’ve picked up enough odds and ends of the rudiments to qualify as self-taught to a minimal level: I’m perfectly happy for other people to call me a musician, but I prefer to be circumspect with respect to what I call myself. So if I were to draw up a list of skills I should have, I’d have to pretty cautious to avoid firing myself. I mean well though.

    I’d second a willingness to serve, first of all: it’s easy to be distracted by the personal pleasure of singing rather than making it an offering to God and to his Church, especially the people present at Mass. There should be an awareness that we’re not there to replace their voices, but foster their active participation in one way or another.

    Linked to that would be an openness to Church teaching on sacred music, beyond personal preference. Whining voices always arise in my choir when the subject of chant comes up. That's no good: everyone can think what they like about chant, but discouraging others from enacting the plainly stated preference of the Church just isn't on. Again, a focus on service, not on showy pieces because they seem more fun than what the Church says we should be aiming for. And when it comes to listening, listening to the choir as a whole, how the parts work (or don’t, as it may be) together.

    I’d also second a rejection of a 'Catholics can't' mentality, but also a 'choristers can't' one. Our choir can't (at present, not intrinsically!) really read music: I'm okay with note durations more or less; as far as pitch is concerned, I'm really just limited to “up a bit” and “down a bit”. We muddle along. Most of the choir essentially sings from memory (with my memory, I'm incapable of that), but I can't help but feel that, a bit at a time, we could gain some useful competence without necessarily taking a course.

    Latin pronunciation is a given at a practical level. I’m not sure what purpose memorisation of the ordinary would serve, unless it was actually linked to understanding of Latin. I’d be all for that, and any other languages that might be needed too. Happily, I do know some Greek at least.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Perhaps Charles could elaborate on just what precise manner he thinks such aquatic panache would be needful for a Church Musician. It is, of course, altogether possible that this entire thing is pure speculation on his part.


    I read some of the proposed qualifications. The thought occurred that since they were laughably unrealistic, why not walk on water, too. Wouldn't we all like to have deep pockets and walk on water like they apparently do at Walsingham every week. It would at least, be entertaining. We could all speculate on how those larger Anglicans are able to stay afloat - LOL.

    You know, it is possible to hire assistants who have skills you don't have, or who can bring skills that complement your own. It's the end product that matters, not as much how you get there.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I am in the process of creating some courses for my diocese and would like your input.
    What should any sacred musician know? Any particular standards they should be achieveing etc.?
    This is a huge part of my prep, please feel free to rant wisely :)

    Methinks the course compilation process is mission accomplished.
    CMAA should publish and receive all royalties.
  • I think two other things should be mentioned:

    1 - keep in mind the potential of life-long learning. This is one reason it is so important for church musicians to consider professional development (including personal practice time!!) as an important part of their paid job. No, time spent developing better skills/knowledge to offer at Mass is not "on your own" or "off the clock" - rather, it is an integral part of your job. Generally speaking, even people with masters and doctorates often do not have well-developed skills, especially in the realm of improvisation and service playing (or at least, a degree and impressive teaching pedigree is no guarantee of improv ability). For the simple reason that these things are not intensively taught in our degree programs in America. Even where they are taught, what happens during the degree is often just a starter course. In short, some skills (primarily improv and composition) need to be practiced for many years and continually developed. Since there are so many skills in church music, in real life the best candidate may be the one who is committed to working constantly to improve proficiency (naturally, above a workable baseline), rather than the candidate who thinks they have all proficiencies. And for those of us who see something lacking, rather than depression a better path forward is making study a part of our working day.

    I see too many colleagues who simply say "I'm not an improviser" or "I'm not a choir conductor" as if those skills could never be studied and learned.

    2 - Division of labor can help with the above. I have numerous colleagues who are fantastic organists, but never took the time to study choral conducting or liturgy, and vice versa. Some of them really don't want to administer or conduct - they just want to play organ at a nice place. For parishes with means, it sometimes works better to have a music director (emphasis on intellectual formation, understanding of history, repertoire, liturgy documents, excellent administrator/organizer and choral conductor, etc.) matched with an organist who brings more impressive technical skills in the areas of improv, choral accompaniment, and repertoire. While the absolute ideal might be one person who can do every single thing excellently, division of labor can take you a long way in practical reality. Also, I don't think the ideal for a music program would ever be just one ubermusician rather than a team of people who could provide more long-term stability and cover sickness, vacation, etc., for each other.
  • tsoapm
    Posts: 79
    Our choir can't (at present, not intrinsically!) really read music:
    Semi-ironically, in my Italian choir, someone was asking what “mf” meant last week... (it could be molto forte)
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • While the absolute ideal might be one person who can do every single thing excellently,


    The problem with this approach is what happens when that one person is suddenly unavailable. I've known the church musician whose sister died on Easter Saturday. To say that he was not in the right mindset to play the vigil that evening is an understatement. But what choice did they have ...
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    Why would improv be a necessary skill for a church musician?
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Why would improv be a necessary skill for a church musician?


    It isn't, from a practical standpoint. I have rarely, rarely had any occasion to use it. I tend to have short interludes and such in my folder anyway, so I play from those when I need filler. If you are in Notre Dame and want to play eight minutes of clashing and dissonant chords, maybe. Not a useful skill in most parishes.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Not a useful skill in most parishes.


    hahahaha....wat?
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Why would improv be a necessary skill for a church musician?


    Is this an actual question or did you forget the purple bold?
  • ...forgot...

    Purple?
    Methinks he didn't forget.
    The frightful thing is that he is serious.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Let me clarify, no purple. Our liturgies are so planned and formatted, everything flows from one thing to another. There is no space for improvisation. When filler is needed, it is very short and stops immediately when the priest give a sign he is ready to move on. He does that by posture and placement. I can generally repeat a few bars of what I am playing, when rarely needed, and he is ready to move on.
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    No, I was not kidding. One of the reasons I've seen that jazz is inappropriate as liturgical music is it's improvisational nature. So, if improvisation is inappropriate for liturgical music, why is it a necessary skill for a church musician?
  • ...if improvisation is inappropriate...

    Where did you encounter such misinformation? Improvisation is a very highly valued skill that all organists should be capable of, some in greater degree than others, depending on their circumstances, and the seriousness with which they pursue their art. I don't see the relevance of jazz improvisation to this question. Jazz is not a liturgical genre. Its milieu and associations, like Broadway, etc., are patently secular. Improvisation is not limited to jazz, which is something of a late-comer to the musical scene. Organists have been improvising on sacred melodies and improvising toccatas, canzonas, praeludia, and so forth for at least a thousand years. Whence, suddenly, this amusing notion that it is not a skill which is inherent to a liturgical organists range of talents. If someone is a full time musician, or, I think, even a half-time one, and can't improvise, he or she is being overpaid - and/or, as the saying goes, 'is in over his or her head'.
  • MarkS
    Posts: 282
    Improvisation is a very useful tool. Most obviously, when you don't know exactly how long a given action might take, improvisation can be more effective than a composed piece—you can arrive in a satisfying way at a concluding cadence at exactly the right moment. Improvisations can function in other ways—they can be used to modulate into the key of the next music, or to introduce the next tune that the congregation will sung. Done artfully, it can make for a seamless liturgical experience. There are three 'built-in' improvisations in our Sunday morning liturgies: between prelude and opening hymn, to modulate into the key of the processional, if necessary, and to introduce the first hymn tune, if less than familiar (or just to stall!); after the Gospel, when the procession makes it's way back up to the chancel (a nice time to reflect on musical themes that have come before); and at the end of Communion, where, again, I can modulate into the key of the closing music, and either introduce elements of the recessional hymn, or reflect on the themes of the day, or even play something spontaneously that seems to fit the liturgical moment. If the dramaturgical aesthetic is seamless liturgy accompanied by appropriate music, improvisation skills are an essential tool. (Although I respect the argument for silence at moments during the liturgy where my impulse would to be provide music,)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    No, I was not kidding. One of the reasons I've seen that jazz is inappropriate as liturgical music is it's improvisational nature. So, if improvisation is inappropriate for liturgical music, why is it a necessary skill for a church musician?


    huh?

    The problem with jazz isn't that it's improvised. The problem is that it's not sacred music.

    Improvisation has never been looked upon negatively in any official sense. You realize there's a long tradition of organ improvisation throughout our Catholic history, right?
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn JL
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,296
    I suppose I can sort of see this both ways. I played for two Masses today, neither of which required much in the way of improvisation. They were both fairly short, and I didn't need all of the verses of the hymns to cover the liturgical action at the entrance, offertory, or communion.

    This is in great contrast to the Sunday Masses I typically play, where we have long processions, use incense, and the altar rail (no EMHCs). All of these things take extra time, especially when they are not rushed through. In situations like those, even using hymns, proper chants, and choral music, I have plenty of time to improvise in order to create seamless (I hope!) transitions between one piece of music and the next.

    If you never play for a Mass like that, I suppose there is less call for improvisation. If, like me, you play for Masses like that on a regular basis, knowing how to improvise at at least a modest level is pretty darn important. It can go a very long way indeed toward making the liturgy everything it can be and ought to be; it can really tie things together beautifully.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I can improvise if I have to, but as I mentioned, our masses are so structured there is rarely a need for it. One of the issues I have with improvisations is that I have heard them turn into performances. In those cases, they call too much attention to themselves. Kind of like the warbling 300-pound soprano cantor who likes to wave arms and emote during psalms. Fortunately, my cantors are in the loft so I don't have that problem.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    One of the issues I have with improvisations is that I have heard them turn into performances.


    Let me rephrase that...

    The existence of practice X creates a situation where someone can turn practice X into something inappropriate. Therefore practice X is inappropriate.

    "One of the issues I have with illuminated manuscripts is that I have seen them with all sorts of naughty images."

    "One of the issues I have with Marian devotionals is that I have seen them turn into wacky cults."

    "One of the issues I have with democracy is that I have seen people voting for things and people I disagree with."

    "One of the issues I have with theology is that I have seen the writings of John Calvin."

    "One of the issues I have with Apostolic Succession is that I have seen really terrible bishops."


    This line of reasoning is a not reasoning.

  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    And here are Adam's SpaghettiOs, talking about taking the general to nit picky extremes - LOL.

    http://i.imgur.com/jpufVxl.jpg