Funeral of a Priest, Need Help!
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    The former pastor of the Parish where I am DM, Rev. Fr. Peter E. Pagano, has just died, I ask first, in your kindness, to pray for the repose of his soul. (He was friends with St. Padre Pio, so he has connections in high places!)

    Second, I have never done a Sacerdotal Requiem (OF) before, and am looking for some pointers from those who have. The Bishop will be celebrating the Mass, and the current Pastor (and I presume the Vicar and Dean) will be Concelebrating, and that's all we know (we don't even have a date yet). Fr. was in his mid-90's, so most people in the Presbyterate who knew him are also deceased.

    I have written to the Cathedral Music/Liturgy Director, so I'm sure he'll tell me more specifics for this Diocese. But any words of wisdom from those who have done this before will be greatly appreciated!
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 857
    Does your diocese have the custom of the singing of the Salve Regina as father's body is moved into the hearse at the end of the funeral Mass?
    Thanked by 2Salieri melofluent
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Dr. Ford, I haven't the faintest idea: the last diocesan funeral I saw (on TV) was the Bishop Emeritus. I got to the sermon and couldn't take it! Every piece of twaddle from the '80's was pulled off the shelf and sung--I have a feeling, however, that that was probably what the poor man requested, since the Cathedral choir usually has much better taste than that! But I will ask if the Salve is sung.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    A number of dioceses have the practice of praying Morning Prayer from the Office of the Dead one hour before the funeral Mass.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 517
    In our diocese, all priests are required to have a full funeral plan on file with the diocesan office. The music is part of that plan. Another tradition here is the all of the priests gathered for the funeral sing the salve regina a capella right before the recessional.
  • RevAMG
    Posts: 162
    My diocese also requires that all priests have a funeral plan (with music) on file with the diocesan offices. Hopefully Fr. Pagano had something similar. Very often the Office of the Dead would be prayed at the wake. It's also usual in my diocese for the chanting of the Salve, Regina as the body is processed out. In a neighboring diocese, where I went to seminary, the priests would chant Ecce Quam Bonum in place of the Salve.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Well, from what the Diocesan Liturgical people say: It's all in my hands and that the Diocesan policy is for each Parish to just do what they normally would for a funeral---which is somewhat of a relief. Let's just hope there are no bizarre requests that the good Father wrote down in the '80's!
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    We also have the custom of the Salve Regina before the recessional.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Yes, in the OF, I believe the main thing to be concerned with is the Salve Regina. Here, they sing it as the body is being transferred to the hearse after Mass, and the people are invited to observe.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    So, We're putting the booklet together.

    Is there a less-traddy way to say "Solemn Pontifical Requiem Mass"? The Mass is N.O., BTW, but the Introit is Requiem Aeternam, and the Bishop is the Celebrant.

    The deceased is already buried, So we can't call it a "Mass of Christian Burial"; "Memorial Mass" just seems a little too, well, non-Catholic; and don't get us started with "Mass of Resurrection" or "Celebration of the Life of..."

    Can we just say "[Solemn] Mass for the Repose of the Soul of..."?

    Does anyone know of a time-honored, but less in-your-face-rad-trad name for this?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    How about
    "Mass for the Dead for the repose of Rev. [XYZ]"
    ?
    Thanked by 1Salieri
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    1. Isn't this the funeral Mass for Father Pagano, even though his body has already been buried? 2. Or were all the funeral rites already celebrated before the burial, and this upcoming Mass in your parish is an additional Mass?

    If no. 1, then use what the approved ritual (Order of Christian Funerals) calls it: FUNERAL MASS

    If no. 2, I agree with you that "Memorial Mass" and "Mass of Resurrection" should not be used. I'd probably go with "Mass for the Repose of the Soul of the Reverend Peter E. Pagano, former Pastor of _________"
    Thanked by 1Salieri
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    No. 2. Thank you, Father! (And Chonak!)

    It sometimes takes an objective outsider to see the forest, rather than just the trees!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    I've always found that terminology "...for the repose of the soul of [Name]" to be puzzling: that is, its explicit mention of the soul. Of course, it's very conventional terminology and devout terminology.

    I guess this is the rub for me: aren't the soul and the deceased person the same thing: or rather, the same being? I suppose it's just an unfortunate side-effect of language, but when I hear talk about "the soul of [a departed person]", the phrase suggests that the soul is some *thing* distinct from the person, and that's not quite right.

    On the other hand, to use the word "soul" is a reminder that we believe in souls.

    Maybe I need to get a consult from a philosopher specializing in Christian anthropology.
  • StephenMatthew
    Posts: 97
    As to priests funerals generally, along with morning prayer on the day of, in many places evening prayer from the office of the dead is prayed the night before and the body lies in the church overnight before the funeral.

    -----

    Now on the "soul of" question, no we do not "possess" or "have" a soul or a body as something distinct from ourselves. We are both body and soul.

    We are, according the philosophers, rational animals. Animal shares the same root as anima, or even animist, or animation, which is actually referring to a thing that has a spirit. Animals have always been held to have a spirit/soul (but not a rational or immortal one). Now the ancient philosophers held that the essential difference, the substance of being human, is that we are rational animals "homo sapiens" the animal that walks on two feet and is capable of wisdom, with rationality/wisdom being a power of the soul/spirit. Now Aristotle held that a rational soul was, for various reasons, inherently immortal, though not quite in the way we think of. (You could reasonably say that death is, for all animals, a sort of transubstantiation, in that what was at one moment the substance called a "cow" or "raccoon" suddenly is no longer that substance even though physically resembling it, which shows that accidents and substance can be contrary even in nature, for the carcass of a cow or raccoon is in no way the substance of a cow or raccoon, even thought it may look very like it.)

    Now the theologians will say that man's spirit/soul, is, in common with (as a category, but not by degree) the angels or even God in being a rational and immortal soul. The trouble is, we are not just our souls, we are also our bodies; nor are we just our bodies, we are also our souls. We can not understand ourselves as "owning" a soul, because we are a soul, but nor can we think of our soul as merely inhabiting a body, because we are our bodies. Man's natural and intended state is not as disembodied souls in some non-corporeal heaven, rather our original intended destiny is to be both body and soul experiencing both spiritual and physical reality. (Thus the "ownership" of the body that the culture preaches is fundamentally an error.) That is why the resurrection of the body is an essential Christian truth and it must be understood as referring, in some sense, to a physical as well as spiritual reality. That then presents the problem of what about the time between death (which is the separation of the body and spirit) and the general resurrection? The common view (among pious folk) is that we will have an interval as non-corporeal souls in a non-physical heaven, but there is a contrary view that suggests that is not quite right and that our final reward isn't realized until the union of the soul with the glorified body is achieved (which may occur in a way not bound by our linear notions of time, or even any notion of time at all, for what is time for spiritual but non-physical beings or places?) [For added bonus points the slight difference between the Latin aeternus and sempiternus also comes into this. Sempiternus can be thought of as time going on forever, but yet still in time, which is how many people think of "eternity". Aeternus on the other hand, in the Christian use, is perhaps better thought of as totally beyond, above, or outside of time, the sort of eternal "now" of God. Both are used in the Roman orations and in other prayers, at times interchangeably, but at times distinctly. The Byzantine "forever and ever unto ages of ages" seems to sum up both ideas.]

    What does it mean then to speak of the "repose of the soul of... someone"? Since the soul is now separate from the body, and the body is now dead, the soul is all that remains alive of them and thus IS them for the present moment (as we view it). Yet, ultimately, it is not only the repose of the soul we hope for, but the resurrection of the body and reunion of body and soul. Perhaps it would be better to pray for just the repose of the person, or their eternal reward, or some other construction, but perhaps there is some pious wisdom of the Christian people contained in the traditional wording, so I would be reluctant to condemn it.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Catholic Encyclopedia (1911) Person
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11726a.htm

    Catholic Encyclopedia (1911) Personality
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11727b.htm
    Thanked by 1StephenMatthew
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    So far the music list seems to be:

    Introit: Requiem aeternam - Gregorian Chant
    Hymn: Serdeczna Matko - Harm. Henry Gaida
    Introit: To my words give ear (Alternate introit for Mass of the Dead) - FEP/Ben Yanke
    Kyrie: Mass XVIII-B
    Psalm: 23
    Alleluia: Eternal rest - Mode II Melismatic/PBC
    Offertory: Turn, O Lord - LCSG
    Hymn: The King of love my shepherd is - Desc. Nigel Walsh
    Sanctus: Mass XVIII
    Acclamation: RM3
    Amen: Dansk
    Agnus: Mass XVIII
    Communion: Lux aeterna - Requiem Mass in F Major, Jos. Renner, Jnr.
    Anthem: I heard a voice from heav'n - Thos. Morley
    Hymn: TBD
    Anthem: Jesu, meine freude - JS Bach, Motet BWV 227, mvt 1
    Marian Antiphon (before recessional): Salve Regina, tonus simplex
    Hymn: Witaj Krolowo nieba - Trad. Polish
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