long & short vowels in liturgical Latin
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 685
    I did a few quick searches on the forums to know that this topic has come up before. I have read through the Parish Book of Chant's Guide to Pronouncing Liturgical Latin and there is no discussion of long and short vowels. Perhaps so as not to confuse.

    But it seems to me there are long and short vowels. For example we don't say missalette as mee-ssalette we say mis-salette. And we say doctrina as dock-tree-na and not doe-ktree-na.

    So there must be long and short vowels in the Latin. My particular concern is we are adding some Latin Worship Aids to our parish website, one of these aids is correct pronunciation and since I take care of things in that regard I am wondering if I should even mention this distinction. It might confuse our choir and cantors from what they have already been instructed by the MD.

    I have also been referencing Collin's book Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin, Goodchilds Gregorian Chant for Church & School and Chant's of the Church (GIA Monks of Solesmes). It would seem there are different schools of thought on this whole subject. Any constructive comments?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    ... there are different schools of thought on this whole subject.


    Truer words were never spoken. ;-)
    Thanked by 4M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen francis Don9of11
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,948
    The reason practices differ is partly pragmatic: avoiding formations that are more likely to create pitch problems or that muddy clarity. Diphthongs, long EEs where amateur singers typically form closer to a clenched mouth, et cet.
    Thanked by 1Don9of11
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    For example we don't say missalette as mee-ssalette we say mis-salette.


    Missalette is not a Latin word, as far as I know.

    Also we SAY a lot of things differently than we sing them.

    [edited by admin]
    Thanked by 1shawnk
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 685
    I'm glad to see that Admin cleaned things up. I wondered if anyone knows the answer to this question. In the Parish Book of Chant 2nd ed, there is a Guide to Pronouncing Liturgical Latin, is there a separate PDF of these couple pages? Is it permitted to add a PDF of this Guide as a link to one's parish website as long as you give credit? I have tried to contact CMAA via email but I don't get any responses.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    For the pronunciation of ecclesiastical Latin, one can do a lot worse than to consult this source on the issue of long and short vowel pronunciation. The brief take is that (as with some other European languages), the long and short distinction is mainly one of length of the vowel and not the particular mouth formation when pronouncing the vowels.

    The Wikipedia article on Latin pronunciation isn't bad, either.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Hi, Don--

    I haven't seen any e-mail from you at the contact@musicasacra.com address. Is there where you wrote?

    Anyway, the full PBC is available at http://media.musicasacra.com/books/pbc_2nd.pdf . Feel free to extract the parts you need and copy them to your parish website: the book is published under Creative Commons licensing.
    Thanked by 1Don9of11
  • Ioannes Andreades
    Posts: 310
    This is still the best treatment of Latin pronunciation, and although it's title says classical Latin, it explains how Latin sounds changed and progressed into Romance.
    http://www.ganino.com/files/Latin Copyright Books/29 Vox Latina The Pronunciation of Classical Latin.pdf
    That said, the comments above that discuss pitch and avoidance of diphthongs are really important. I say that as someone who has spent years getting my pronunciation down for spoken Latin but now find myself organizing some chant. Making all i's ee, all u's oo, and all e's eh (not ay!) is a really good idea when you sing even if it's not how it was ever pronounced by Latin-speaking Christians.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 685
    chonak, I sent it to books@musicasacra.com. Once back in October then here recently in February. Thanks for checking and letting me know that I can copy what I need from it. I just sent an email to the link above, let me know if it goes through.
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