How do you sing the "cross" sign in responsorial Psalm verses.
  • puretonesoprano
    Posts: 59
    I can't seem to find any documentation online regarding how to sing the flex in the responsorial Psalm or chant. I know to go down a minor third or a fifth depending on the mode, but where can I find written documentation that I can share regarding the rules in singing the cross sign?

    Thank you for your help!

    Rebekah
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    In Latin or English?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Here's the Latin: www.musicasacra.com/pdf/tones.pdf
    Thanked by 1puretonesoprano
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    The flex is sung dropping a whole tone in tones I, IV, VII, and Tonus Peregrinus.
    The other tones, II, III, V, and VIII drop a minor third.

    This, it will be seen, follows rather self-evidently, being most euphonious.
    A pattern seems to be that those tones whose intonations consist only of step-wise tones are the ones whose flexes drop the major second. Those whose intonations include an interval wider than a second drop a minor third.

    (P.S. - None of the flexes drop a fifth! This occurs only at the full stop of the tone for the prophecy or Old Testament reading at mass.)

    (P-P.S. - The written documentation you request may be found in Liber Usualis, or in the table of psalm tones in the appendix of St Dunstan's Plainsong Psalter, et al.)
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen puretonesoprano CCooze
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    NB: In the restored tone III (reciting on Ti) the flex drops a whole tone to La, following the pattern that Jackson mentions above for tones I, IV, VII, & Tonus Pereg's.

    (This would also theoretically be the case if one were to 'restore' the recitation of tone VIII to Ti as well, but no one actually sings it like that, whereas tone III is very often restored to the ancient reciting tone.)
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen puretonesoprano
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    By the way, that symbol is not called a cross; it is a dagger you see before you.
    Thanked by 1puretonesoprano
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Lo! It is, forsooth, it is!
  • puretonesoprano
    Posts: 59
    Ben, it's English... Is it different than the Latin rules?
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    No. It's the same whether it's Latin, English, or Urdu.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    There is one caveat: in the various 'new tones' from Fr. Columba Kelly, Fr. Samuel Weber, and Adam Bartlett, specifically for English texts, it is suggested that the flex be treated as simply a break in the music, remaining on the reciting tone. However, if one is singing in English (or any other language) but to a true Gregorian Tone, the flex is sung as above. I must confess, however, that I often retain the Latin flex formulae even when using the new English tones.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    It's the same whether it's Latin, English, or Urdu.


    But in the Novus Urdu, you replace the Gregorian Tones with Hawaiian folk melodies.
    Thanked by 5M. Jackson Osborn gregp tomjaw nun_34 CCooze
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Nope, Little Joe, in the NU one must, must use Missa Luba, except for the Old Polish Ecumenica Catholics, aka OPEC, the Missa Tuba.
    Thanked by 3gregp tomjaw CHGiffen
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    Adam & Melofluent it is at times like these I am really glad that I don't have to sing or even go to the N.O. Mass,
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    I read somewhere that Balinese gamelin music was not allowed in the NU the second Sunday of every month and on ember days. Can anyone provide documentation of this?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    I would expect OPEC to have a financial interest in a French-language Messe Lube.

  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Boooh!
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