Simplified Latin propers, prepared by David McClamrock
  • McClamrock
    Posts: 29
    Inspired by the thread called "Simple Latin Propers, Richard Rice" and instructed by the one called "Gregorio--Gregorian notation software," I came up with these simplified propers for the Feast of All Saints. The aim is to get something more nearly authentic and more often beautiful than Father Rossini's pseudo-psalm-tone propers (now used by our Latin choir), while mostly sticking close to the (correct) psalm tones for ease of learning. Comments welcome on whether you think I've succeeded or not. If not, please distinguish whether (1) you think the whole idea is a bad one, or (2) you think the idea is good, but I've failed to carry it out well. Thanks!
    Thanked by 4noel jones, aago Felipe Gasper JulieColl PeterJ
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    This looks basically like the Anglican use Gradual for Roman liturgy, which would definitely be useful to have!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I'm not convinced taking a psalm tone and modifying the first section is the best idea.
  • McClamrock
    Posts: 29
    Ben Yanke wrote:

    I'm not convinced taking a psalm tone and modifying the first section is the best idea.


    Have you got any suggestions about what you think is the best idea? The reason why I did it that way was to retain at least a little of the original chant (mostly in the first sections, though not entirely--for example, the third "Beati" in the Communion is straight out of the original). The Alleluia is also a simplified version of the original, with no psalm tone except in the verse.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    These look highly useful, and I'm so heartened to see that you have remained as faithful as possible to the original melodies without which I think my soul would shrivel up and die. : )

    I would use these over the Chants Abreges any day of the week and think they would be excellent for children and beginning scholae. I know the Chants Abreges work very well for other people, but for some reason the few times we've had recourse to them, we found them quite abstruse.

    I'm also pretty sure that if you could abbreviate the Palm Sunday Tract, Deus, Deus meus and the Tract for the First Sunday of Lent, Qui habitat., in the same manner as you have here, it would be of great help.
  • Siena1347
    Posts: 12
    David, what you've done is gorgeous! It's a great way to keep the "feel" of the authentic chant, but within the reach of choirs.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    I was comparing these side by side with my Liber Usualis, and from what I can see David has managed to retain much of the original. I think it's especially important to preserve all the incipits and the Alleuias for each Sunday since they become part of that Sunday's special "signature" or character.
  • PeterJ
    Posts: 87
    I really like this approach, David, and I think I "get" what you're trying to do here - nice idea and thanks for posting. I guess what you are saying is that if people here are involved with choirs which are using Rossini psalm tones, then perhaps this might be a nice "step up" from that. (If people's choirs are capable of more, but not quite ready for the GR, then Richard R's excellent project would be just the ticket... and if somewhere in the middle, then perhaps a mix of the two approaches.)

  • PeterJ
    Posts: 87
    Btw I like the way you've kept the Alleluia. I have one particular thought /question in this regard.

    I lead one particular "baby" latin choir in my local area, which sings an EF Missa Cantata every now and again. We tend to do a few of the Propers according to the GR and the others to a simpler psalm tone / Chants Abreges (with a simple three part motet at Communion). As we get better, I hope to shift us towards more and more from the GR, but Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm taking it a step at a time.

    Anyhow, I guess it's this sort of choir that your potential project - and Richard's excellent project - would be aimed at.

    When planning what to do with the baby latin choir, I thought it would be nice to do Alleluia's from the GR, but equally felt that learning a new Alleluia for each Sunday/Feast we sing at might just be a bridge too far at this stage. So, I spent a bit of time getting everyone familiar with the Pentecost Alleluia from the GR (which, in my view, is one of the finest Alleluias in the GR). I have then re-used this Alleluia a few times on other Sundays/feasts, particularly where Mode II was used in the GR (obviously changing the verses, set to a psalm tone like you've done here). I plan to add a few more Alleluias as we get better.

    This may seem a bit of a tangent, but the reason why I mention it is this: if you are thinking of expanding this project, do you think it might be a good idea to select a handful of Alleluias from the GR (e.g. one for each mode, or a couple for some of the modes) and stick to those ones, rather than do a new Alleluia for each Sunday/Feast?

    Just a thought - by all means disregard!
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    I think that's a great plan you have with the Alleluias, Peter J, to keep adding them to your repertoire. I don't know about you, but they become the highlight of your week. One of my schola friends often emails me early in the week with great excitement and says, "Have you checked out this Sunday's Alleluia??" He has many of them memorized and will pop up in the middle of a dinner out with friends and offer to sing an Alleluia on the spot. I guess he has me trained now to pay special attention to them and to look through my Liber to find out which ones are coming up next.
  • PeterJ
    Posts: 87
    JulieColl - yes, I increasingly find the Alleluias something of a highlight, too. Wish I was a sufficiently good vocalist to sing them on the spot like your friend!!
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Me, too. They go in one ear and out the other with me. My friend Bob is legendary for singing Graduals and Alleluias from memory. I don't know how he does it; his memorization skills are simply prodigious, and he can sing them just about anytime and anyplace, too, which creates interesting situations sometimes.
  • McClamrock
    Posts: 29
    Thanks to everyone for the (mostly) favorable comments; I'm encouraged to do more. A couple of responses:

    JulieColl wrote:
    I'm also pretty sure that if you could abbreviate the Palm Sunday Tract, Deus, Deus meus and the Tract for the First Sunday of Lent, Qui habitat., in the same manner as you have here, it would be of great help.


    Maybe so, but the pastor and the choir director might not agree! Oops, wait--I guess you probably mean abbreviating the music rather than the words. :o) That would be time-consuming but not too difficult, since I'd put almost all of each to psalm tone 2.

    PeterJ wrote:
    if you are thinking of expanding this project, do you think it might be a good idea to select a handful of Alleluias from the GR (e.g. one for each mode, or a couple for some of the modes) and stick to those ones, rather than do a new Alleluia for each Sunday/Feast?


    Interesting idea, but I haven't got that far yet. If and when I do, I'll see if it looks like it would work. Right now I'm just hoping to supplant Father Rossini (if possible) on a few big feasts in the next few months, like Christ the King, All Saints, Immaculate Conception, and Christmas. Speaking of which . . . if I have any time left this evening, I'll get back to work on the propers for the Feast of Christ the King.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I thought this wasn't allowed in the EF. Am I mistaken?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    On paper, only full propers or psalm tones or recto tono are allowed (per De musica sacra, 1958). But that restriction is in practice a dead letter: it just wasn't observed.
    Thanked by 3Adam Wood CHGiffen Ben
  • McClamrock
    Posts: 29
    chonak wrote:

    On paper, only full propers or psalm tones or recto tono are allowed (per De musica sacra, 1958). But that restriction is in practice a dead letter: it just wasn't observed.


    OK, I found a link to De musica sacra so I could see what it actually says:
    http://www.adoremus.org/1958Intro-sac-mus.html . Here's what (in section 21(c)):

    But if for some reason a choir cannot sing one or another liturgical text according to the music printed in the liturgical books, the only permissible substitution is this: that it be sung either recto tono, i.e., on a straight tone, or set to one of the psalm tones. Organ accompaniment may be used. Typical reasons for permitting such a change are an insufficient number of singers, or their lack of musical training, or even, at times, the length of a particular rite or chant.


    Now let me see what the pastor and the choir director have to say about whether it's a dead letter or not. Also, even if it isn't, I don't see that it would necessarily rule out a simplified combination of the "music printed in the liturgical books" with psalm tones, even if it would rule out new music not derived from either. The meaning would then be that, if the choir can't sing the liturgical text in its entirety according to the music printed in the liturgical books, the remainder may be set to one of the psalm tones. This would follow from the principle that, so far as feasible, the authentic music should be used, since it's greatly superior to psalm tones.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Thanks for pointing that out, Adam. I wasn't aware of that provision in De Musica Sacra. How does that apply to the Chants Abreges?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I'd suggest something along these lines:

    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/11065/simple-latin-propers-richard-rice
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Thanks for pointing that out, Adam.


    I have no EF experience. I only remember having this same conversation on this forum in the relatively recent past.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    It would apply to the Chants Abreges too; that's why a psalm-tone edition was published around then to replace it.

    Anyone feeling scrupulous can write to the Ecclesia Dei commission and ask them if that directive may be waived.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Si dormientes, canes iaceant.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Or rather, some of the common rubrical questions have been asked, and the response in 2008 was (a) "custom and usage have modified some of the strict requirements..." (b) go check with musicasacra.com; (c) see Andrew Mills' guide to EF music.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/7922493/Letter-from-Vatican-on-Music
  • PeterJ
    Posts: 87
    David - I think starting with the big feasts sounds the right way to go. Even if you stop after that, if you manage to get good coverage across the liturgical year, such a resource would be pretty handy, in my view. Thank you again for sharing.
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