Incense allergy
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    I have discovered, much to my frustration and embarrassment (as I am the music director and principal cantor for the EF Masses), that certain ingredients in certain types of incense seem to cause a problem with singing. Specifically, it feels as if the soft pallet gets irritated and will not lift, thus making it impossible to sing a distinct pitch. Soon afterward, I begin to cough and my eyes and nose run. Today at Mass was particularly bad (they switched to a different incense for Lent from what they'd used in the previous weeks wherein I had no problem at all), and by the end of the Mass I looked like I'd been victim to a gas attack - swollen watery eyes and nose.

    As luck would have it, our master of servers is also a member of the men's schola and was witness to this. After Mass we went to the sacristy and discovered that the incense in quo was "Acacia" from Holy Transfiguration Monastery.

    I'm sure it's a very fine, high quality incense. The issue is not with that. Rather, what I wish to determine is if anyone else has found problems with particular varieties of incense (not brands, but ingredients such as a higher percentage of myrrh or frankincense, and what the solution might be. In the meantime, I've suggested to the master of servers that he and I get together for a "controlled burn" of all of the different incenses, so that I can be exposed to them and try to sing, thus discovering which ones are easier for my symptoms.

    Are there any others out there with similar difficulties or experiences?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I have some choir members who can't tolerate certain types of incense. I open the loft door and partially open one of the outside doors. The updraft coming up the stairs helps dissipate the stuff.

    Some of the incense that is especially smoky can have cedar shavings in it. One of our priests was using up some incense left over from a diocesan function to get rid of it. I accused him of using ghetto incense - frankincense and burning tires. It was bad! When he uses high quality incense, not as many folks have problems with it.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I wish I had inquired which "brand" of incense was used at the New Orleans chant intensive, David, as it was used proliferously and was allergin-free. Maybe Adam B., Mahrt, Ron R., or someone else might remember.
  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    sorry DA... I couldn't resist this to "lighten the air"
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  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Try to email Horst Buchholz. I'm pretty sure the archbishop of STL is allergic, and they use a hypo-allergenic blend.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Have you tried Claritin?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    The better Orthodox supply houses offer many grades and kinds of good quality incense. There really is no reason to use the cheap stuff.
    Thanked by 3Andrew Motyka kenstb Adam Wood
  • kenstb
    Posts: 369
    Reading this thread has made me feel quite jealous of most of you. In my parish, I have to beg the pastor to use incense at all. He claims that it's too expensive. CharlesW, could you point me toward a couple of the better supply houses? I would like to send some to my pastor as a gift. :)
  • Mark HuseyMark Husey
    Posts: 192
    I've heard that manufacturers will add sawdust to incense to make it smoke more; I had a horrible allergic reaction to the incense our new pastor used the first 6 months he was there. I ended up ordering some hypo-allergenic incense from Trinity and blending two kinds (one that burns quicker for more smoke, one more fragrant and lasts longer). No more problems.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Much like how cocaine is typically mixed with corn starch (because that's an analogy i'm sure all of you can grasp immediately), incense is frequently sold with fillers. Saw dust is typical. When you buy "the cheap stuff," it isn't (just) the quality of the incense that's low - it's the actual quantity.

    Several people in other forum threads have recommended this supplier:
    http://store.holycross-hermitage.com/categories/incense.html
    Thanked by 2Andrew Motyka kenstb
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Light & Life is one of the largest Orthodox publishers/suppliers. They sell incense and have a website. Adam just posted Holy Cross. These folks have incense, but I have never bought from them so have no firsthand experience with them.

    http://www.archangelsbooks.com/categories.asp?cat=Orthodox+Liturgical+Incense
    Thanked by 1kenstb
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 468
    Price and purity are frequently not correlated.

    When, until last year I was regularly purchasing incense, I was getting pure frankincense for $12/pound locally.

    The biggest problems for allergies are, as has been pointed out above, wood chips (usually cedar dust) and strong floral scents.

    For almost all purposes, plain frankincense will be sufficient. Use a coffee grinder to achieve a balance of powder (so it will smoke quickly) and larger pieces (so that it will smoke continually). If you use more charcoal and more frankincense you can get the quantity of smoke that is produced by smaller amounts of (irritating) cedar dust smoke, if this is desired.

    As other folks have noted, keeping the thurible clean is important.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • lhouston58
    Posts: 52

    Some years ago there was a discussion about this on the Ship of Fools site - 'Incense and Thuribles. It goes on quite a bit. Here's the link:

    http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000701


    You might like to try out the incense made by the Church of St. Mary the Virgin NYC (aka: "Smoky Mary"). It's a bit pricey ($25 for 1/4 pound), but it's the best I ever smelled. Click on the link to read 'The Phantom of the Incense. The second link is a link to St. Mary's in case you want to look into buying a pound or two:

    http://www.stmvirgin.org/article54103.htm

    http://www.stmvirgin.org/article77294.htm

    The incense used by the Church of the Advent in Boston is their own blend - at least it used to be. They might be getting it from St Mary's these days. It smells heavenly and isn't at all irritating.

    That quick-lighting charcoal most churches use (Three Kings, Self Lite) has gunpowder in it which means sulphur is also involved. You might consider using Japanese bamboo charcoal which has no additives and burns cleanly. It takes longer to light, but once started, burns for a long time. It isn't terribly expensive.

    Keep that thurible clean. You don't want a creosote fire to start!
    Thanked by 1kenstb
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468

    Much like how cocaine is typically mixed with corn starch (because that's an analogy i'm sure all of you can grasp immediately


    Oh, now I get it! :)

    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CharlesW
  • kenstb
    Posts: 369
    Thanks to all of you who posted sites to procure incense. I'm trying to remove the resistance to making use of ALL of the instruments of our Catholic tradition and this will help to add another dimension of reverence to our liturgy. For a while, I have observed what appears to be IMHO a drift towards banality in our parishes.
    I want to restore the sense of the sacred in our celebrations, so again, thanks.
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 468
    You might like to try out the incense made by the Church of St. Mary the Virgin NYC (aka: "Smoky Mary"). It's a bit pricey ($25 for 1/4 pound), but it's the best I ever smelled.

    St. Mary's incense (which I have purchased from them and used) does smell nice, but it definitely uses cedar dust as part of its mixture so it is not likely to be unirritating if that it is a primary consideration.

    That quick-lighting charcoal most churches use (Three Kings, Self Lite) has gunpowder in it which means sulphur is also involved. You might consider using Japanese bamboo charcoal which has no additives and burns cleanly. It takes longer to light, but once started, burns for a long time. It isn't terribly expensive.

    Self Lite brand is much better than Three Kings in my experience. We tried using Japanese bamboo charcoal, but what really worked well and was much less expensive was coconut charcoal made for hookahs. It does take much longer to light (we used a propane torch, before self-light charcoal and electric light some parishes would have a gas flame from the light system in the sacristy for lighting charcoal.) However, we found that the smell difference between the Self Lite brand charcoal and pure charcoal without the gunpowder was pretty small once the initial lighting in the sacristy passed and it's a LOT more work to get lit. We ended up only using it for really long ceremonies where its long burning property was useful. It might be more workable if you used an electric burner to light it, but we never got a chance to try that.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    Actually, the coordinator of altar boys, who was witness to my violent reaction, went out and bought a box of good, old-fashioned Cathedral brand incense, the "Jerusalem" variety.

    Boy did that smell bring back memories. And, after practically burying my nose in the thurible and breathing deeply, no choking.

    Sometimes the tried and true, even if it's cheap, is the best.

    And by the way, I grew up as a military interpretive historian (a.k.a. "re-enactor") for the 1812 period and was around black powder for many years, even firing muskets and working on cannon crews, all with no problem. I don't think it's a charcoal problem, I think it's an unidentified additive in the incense problem.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    In my experience, the self Lite doesn't cause any problems, as long as you get the sulphur burned off before you use it, which in my mind any thurifer would naturally do before leaving the sscriet (I know I do, I like it get a nice hot bed od coals before coming out, the sulphur is long gone by that point).

    It does burn your eyes a little bit sometimes though, when lighting...
  • Felicity
    Posts: 77
    I, too, have had terrible reactions to some incenses, bad headaches and sometimes nausea. Our wonderful sacristan worked with me until we found something that did not bother me at all. The floral additives turned out to be the problem.

    Congratulations on finding a solution, David.

    Deo gratias!
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    Prayers today would be helpful. After several days of pleasantly warm weather, it's quite frosty, and my sinuses have risen up in protest. If I choke today, it will only cause more embarrassment. I had major sinus surgery in 2009, but these issues remain problematic.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    David you have those prayers. I live in Knoxville, TN - the allergy capital of the world. We already are saturated with three kinds of tree pollen. If it were not for steroid sprays, I could rarely leave the house. Prayers for you, because I know that you are suffering.
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