Question about the the Sanctus in a Sung Mass according to De Musica Sacra
  • Ora_et_Labora
    Posts: 40
    As I am helping to prepare our daughter's Baptism and Mass, I happened to discover this quote from De Musica Sacra:

    d) If the Sanctus-Benedictus are sung in Gregorian chant, they should be put together without interruption; otherwise, the Benedictus should be sung after the Consecration.


    This appears in the indications for Sung Masses.

    My question is: is this still valid? I have seen videos of sung Masses by the ICRSS where this is not observed. How binding then is De Musica Sacra?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Which part of this instruction is not being observed in those ICRSS videos? I.e., is a chant Sanctus-Benedictus being split up contrary to the rule? Or is a non-chant Benedictus being started before the Consecration, contrary to the rule?

    The document was published in 1958, so unless something happened between then and 1962, it was still in force in 1962; and of course Extraordinary Form Masses should follow norms in force in 1962 (here come the exceptions I can think of ...)

    .... unless some contrary permission has been given by the Ecclesia Dei commission (they're rather generous), or by the local bishop or pastor in a matter subject to their competence; or unless there is a contrary practice that can claim legitimacy on the basis of custom.

    Because of the many possible exceptions, I seldom feel safe in accusing someone else of violating a musical norm in questions like this. On the other hand, at least it is clear what practice the Holy See was presenting as normative.
    Thanked by 1Ora_et_Labora
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    In older editions of the Liber the instructions seem to suggest that the Sanctus should be split from the Benedictus even when singing chant. This was explored in another discussion on this forum.

    With polyphonic settings it is normal to split the Sanctus / Benedictus, this can be seen in the arrangements where they are usually written as different pieces. In the EF nothing must be played or sung during the Consecration, so the celebrant would have to wait until the choir finished singing the Sanctus, with longer settings this may be a long wait so splitting is needed.

    Some books suggest that pieces such as the Ave Verum were written to be sung after the Consecration (at least in some Rites). I would suggest at that time, the chant Sanctus was not split from the Benedictus. This split of the chant only coming later to follow the practice with the longer polyphonic settings.

    Anyway last night we sang Mass 2 and split the Sanctus as we always do at that parish... In the other places we sing we would not be allowed to split a chant Sanctus!

    N.B. The rules for the OF are different!
    Thanked by 1Ora_et_Labora
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    FWIW, in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee from the '30's onward, the Chant S/B was sung before the Consecration; other settings were split.

    Milwaukee was (until the late '60's) a liturgically-solid entity.
    Thanked by 1Ora_et_Labora
  • Ora_et_Labora
    Posts: 40
    tomjaw: could you help indicate which discussion?

    chonak: I'm not trying to be judgemental of the ICRSS. I just want to be faithful to what Rome wants and not let my personal preferences override official documents :-)
    As for the videos I mentioned, the chanted Sanctus-Benedictus is being split up contrary to the rule.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    Here is the link to the discussion, this compares how the rubrics have changed. There have been other discussions but I can only find the one's referring to the Communion.

    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/7105/liber-usualis-anybody-have-a-copy-with-rubrics-in-english-from-before-1961-/p1

    "I just want to be faithful to what Rome wants..." how interesting, I am not sure that Rome really understands what it wants, and this has changed as shown in the Rubrics in the Liber... Were the older Rubrics wrong? and are the more recent 'right'? or are they two opinions.

    There are lots of questions I would like to ask 'Rome', the problem is I don't think that they would understand the questions.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen SkirpR
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    And people say we're an organized religion.
    [rimshot]
    Thanked by 4Ruth Lapeyre Ben Salieri tomjaw
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