I sent for a free copy of St. Augustine - it came today. I'll second BMP's comparison to a low-budget GC (which my parish uses, BTW, along with the brown People's Mass Book). There's a lot to like, but there's also a lot NOT to like.

LMAO Mark! I'm guessing the PMB is the 1984 edition?
BMP

As a musician in the Catholic Church I've found The Saint Augustine Hymnal to follow the Hermeneutics of Continuity (Pope Benedict XVI) to a tee. I also like the aesthetic quality of the Vatican II hymnal, but it doesn't address the entire church. However, no hymnal exists that can be everything to everyone and I stand by that completely - No. 5 states in the preface.

Gather Comprehensive (GC), while being a great publication, caters to a different concept of the teachings of the church. I have used Gather on and off for some years and not until recently did I get hit with a realization about several its hymns. For example, whilst about to sing the first line of music from a well-loved German Christmas hymn from the 14th Century, I was shocked to find that they took it upon themselves to change the title and thus, the lyric to "Good Christian FRIENDS, Rejoice" was born. The song loses its historical meaning and context - not only that, but it would be like changing any well-known document that has had high circulation or exposure (ex: Declaration of Independence). It looses its candor and charm, its effectiveness as a well-known hymn.

It is understandable that publishers who are not rooted in the Catholic faith would adhere to modernistic or feminist principles like this language of inclusivity, but it does not honor the Language of God or the theological teachings of our beautiful faith to do so (look at No. 6 of the preface in SAH). Also, by no means would I imagine vilifying GIA. They have some finely published music written by various well-loved composers and I think that many smaller publishers look to GIA for examples, as they should. In the matter of this particular issue, and possibly several others that have yet to be unearthed, I cannot say they should.

H4M

Prompted by H4M's post, I see that the publisher's website is offering sound samples for the Saint Augustine Hymnal, so I checked out the site and spent a few minutes listening.

This is definitely not a hymnal for parishes that rely on traditional repertoire, because nearly everything in it is contemporary music in theatrical styles. This sort of makes sense, given that the company was founded (and presumably is still directed) by contemporary composer Vince Ambrosetti.

The website bills this as a book full of "widely sung titles". Widely sung? Where? Not in any Catholic church I've ever visited. I listened to thirty-five tracks and only recognized six at all. Of the 35, just three of the songs were traditional hymns.

The book's contemporary songs are designed for soloists and small vocal ensembles, not congregations. They use syncopation quite a bit, and the sample arrangements are sweetened with strings and use piano rather than organ. They'd fit in well on easy-listening Evangelical radio.

While I think the texts of the songs present little if anything to complain about, I can't agree with H4M's suggestion that this hymnal represents continuity.

You've painted a very clear picture of the situation, Prof Kwasniewski. Thank you!

Chonak and ProfKwasniewski,

I went on the website and noticed that not all of the actual titles in the Saint Augustine Hymnal are actually on there. So, "I listened to thirty-five tracks and only recognized six at all. Of the 35, just three of the songs were traditional hymns" is in part true. I called there the other day and evidently they are recording the entire hymnal. It looks like they actually ARE following continuity because they comparison charts online are most varied.

In their hard cover edition they have (and I'm reading off of the net here) 74 OCP (whereas GIA only has 61), 36 WLP titles (whereas GIA has only 17); in their 3-yr soft cover ed. they have 68 OCP titles (WLP only has 14, GIA doesn't offer something like this), 43 GIA titles (OCP only has 20; WLP has 37). So far it looks like they are more varied in their compilation of titles than any other publisher. This is just the facts.

Another comment I'd like to address is ProfKwasniewski's mention of the Vatican II Hymnal. It is a wonderful resource for the church and addresses much of the lost sacred liturgy. Yes we need to hold on to what has been and must be renewed, but we must also take into account that we are moving into a new time with our sacred liturgy and there are hundreds of churches celebrating contemporary styles and doing quite well with that. They also seem to be incorporating chant and traditional hymnody because any church that recognizes the beauty and value of what the church has fostered before will also recognize the growth of the church musically now.

Very disappointed in the Saint Augustine Hymnal. Very few traditional hymns. Most are written by International Liturgy Publication composers. We looked at the index and thought we were getting the traditional hymns because we saw their titles. However, the hymns themselves had been written by the International Liturgy group of composers. Only the title had been kept. I agree with chonak's evaluation of this hymnal. In a hymnal of this size, there are few hymns that the congregation knows and it is difficult for them to learn. The Responsorial Psalms are very difficult to sing/learn. Lots of syncopation, strange phrasing and therefore, the text is not easy to understand by the congregation.

Dear Benedict Gal,

Thanks for the message!

The Vatican II Hymnal does contain the TEXTS for the Sung propers (a.k.a. Graduale Propers) which allows the congregation to follow along.

However, our book has the flexibility to allow congregations to follow the Propers NO MATTER which version is sung: PSALM TONES, SIMPLE ENGLISH PSALM TONES, SIMPLE ENGLISH PROPERS, FULL VERSION IN THE GRADUALE ROMANUM IN LATIN, etc.

Here is what has been on the website since August:

The Vatican II Hymnal — 750 pages long • Complete Readings for all Sundays and Major Feasts (Years ABC) • First Hymnal ever printed to contain complete texts for the Sung Propers • More than a hundred pages of Mass Settings (Roman Missal, 3rd Edition) • Complete texts in Latin and English for Ordinary & Extraordinary Forms of the Mass • Beautiful Hymns, including more than 100 pages of Communion Hymns • Chabanel Responsorial Psalms, Garnier Alleluias, Motets, and much more!

How edifying to see such intelligent discourse on sacred music in the Catholic tradition. As the publisher of the Saint Augustine Hymnal (SAH), I appreciate the opportunity to clarify some points of confusion regarding this fine hymnal, the collaborative work of many dedicated and talented people over the last eight years.

1. If you would kindly take a few moments to read the PREFACE of the SAH, it will provide you much greater understanding as to the principles by which this hymnal has been carefully crafted. This can be found at: http://www.ilpmusic.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=f17e19c307032fd12ae6f732d2471135&Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=VA&Category_Code=SAHBrowse

2. The Saint Augustine Hymnal is the only hymnal that provides a blend of traditional and contemporary, vulgate and vernacular, explicitly Catholic theology, respecting the ever-developing tradition of the Church. Fine hymnals such as Adoremus, St. Michael and Vatican II are seated firmly in Pre-Vatican II content; whereas resources from OCP, WLP and GIA are predominantly Post-Vatican II, and GIA hymnals rely heavily on Reformation and other non-Catholic hymnody.

3. The SAH does not dance around Trinitarian theology with inappropriate interpretations; ILP is faithful to our tradition of Trinity and the language of God. Nor does the SAH change time-honored language of hymns. Certainly Newton believed himself to be a wretch, perhaps deservedly so; why would we tamper with this poetic text?

4. ILP will not publish texts that confuse the faithful. We do not rise from ashes; God raises us from ashes. You and I are not the bread of life; Jesus the Christ is the Bread of Life. Ought we aspire to sing a new Church; or should we ask God to recreate us in His image?

5. The SAH capitalizes Divine pronouns for the sake of reverence and clarity. ILP never avoids masculine pronouns when referring to God; this is our tradition and a time-honored convention of the English language.

6. Perhaps we were mistaken to place MP3s for listening on our website. It is important to note that we are presently featuring the contemporary titles in the SAH because we presume that you already know the traditional titles. I would think that you don't need MP3s of "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence," "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name," "Humbly We Adore Thee/Adoro Te," "Panis Angelicus," "Jesus Christ Is Risen Today," "Regina Caeli" or the myriad of other traditional titles in the SAH. We simply made the new MP3s available because this is the content that is most certainly unfamiliar.

7. The SAH has the largest repertoire of traditional music blended with familiar and new post-Vatican II titles, all faithful to the tradition of our Church. Although I respect the sentiment of Noel Jones that his magic number of titles is 250, I would challenge you to find a parish of 2,000+ families to agree on those titles, or a dozen churches of 300+ families to agree on a common repertoire. Some churches today have four different publications in the pew racks to accommodate the varied interests and needs of a single parish. Furthermore, OCP, GIA and WLP have historically not generously shared music with one another. The SAH was conceived to address this simple need: Growing parishes in the United States and the English-speaking world need a broad repertoire to speak to the hearts of the faithful. Although you may not like "On Eagle's Wings," 7 out of 10 Catholics desire to sing it at the funeral of loved ones. And, although I am not a huge fan of shallow "Praise & Worship," I do believe in Fr. Payton's credo: "The family that prays together stays together." ILP believes that if we don't provide a hymnal that places all of this music under one cover, young people will sing ONLY the "Praise & Worship" from theologically-undernourished publications (from Catholic and non-Catholic publishers alike) (rather than a well-balanced diet of old and new), leading entire generations to the so-called "non-denominational" personality cult church up the street. We can dig our feet in and protest new music, focusing all of our energies on preservation of the past; or, we can grow with the Church and ensure that the generations that follow us are fed with theologically rich texts, faithful to our tradition. ILP chooses to grow and to serve.

8. It is strange to be called a "contemporary composer," as though this is an indictment. Contemporary is only bad if poorly done, as is poorly done traditional. But, perhaps you are not familiar with my choral works, some of which are with the National Philharmonic Orchestra of London, some that are now in the archives of the Vatican? I suppose that I am contemporary in that I am living now. However, not only are my works varied and substantive, so are the contributions of ILP's more than 90 composers and authors. Some write in a more contemporary (pianistic/ensemble) style, some write in a more traditional (organistic/choral/chant/orchestral) style, others write across a broad spectrum of styles. ILP's new genre of chant, "Ora Canta," featuring memorable and elegant ostinato refrains with vocal counterpoint and instrumental overlay give hint to Palestrina and Gregorian influence; more importantly, they are rich in Scriptural texts, accessible to assembly, and are enriched by the prayerful and dignified participation of the choir. And they live abundantly throughout the SAH, where you might find empty space in other hymnals.

PART ONE, (Part Two to follow)

Mr. Ambrosetti, it is a pleasure to re-aquaint your company from having met you some 17 years ago when you were offering parish missions.
Regarding your statement in which you presume a sentiment in this forum or among CMAA members or affiliates that "new is bad," I can patently attest that after associating with CMAA in 06, and having just returned from my fifth colloquium just yesterday, nothing could be further from such a presumption. If you peruse our sister blog, THE CHANT CAFE, you will clearly see an article in which I chronicled the reception of many beautiful, newly minted hymns and compositions. The primary issue is not about how contemporaneous any music serving the liturgy might be, the focal issues for CMAA members "seems" to be adherence to the motto that it be "sacred, universal and beautiful." Secondly, and just as important, that new composition also adheres to the mandates of documents such as Musicam Sacram and Pope Pius X's motu proprio of 1903 that stipulates new music will always be welcomed to the liturgy that exhibits certain and specific criteria that respects and emulates the primary place of chant and its successor, high polyphony. And those two guiding principles insure that there is more than the primary elements of music (melody, etc.) that ultimately assesses the worthiness of new composition. So, to the contrary, CMAA rejoices in the renaissance of worthy sacred music, and that has been opined here and at the CAFE in many articles and threads.
Technically, your determination that OCP and WLP (not GIA) rely primarily upon one composer's psalm settings is also incorrect. Like your hymnal, the subscription and hardbound hymnals have "psalter" sections including the works of many composers. Their value and licitness for use at Mass is quite another issue.
I offer these observations only in the interest of clarification.

I have been looking at hymnals to replace Ritual Song, which is a collection both good, and bad. The pastor gave me a copy of the Saint Augustine to examine a couple of weeks ago. I, too, found too many contemporary hymns unknown to my congregation. I didn't look at the Vatican II enough to do it justice, but formed a preliminary opinion that the mass settings were too much alike. I don't remember seeing any good choral masses for special celebrations. I haven't looked at Worship IV, but am hearing things about it that are not so good. Gather is about one step below firewood, so it is out of the question. The pastor concluded that now may not be the greatest of times to buy new hymnals. He thinks with a bit of time, some new and better things may come along. For now, we will continue to use RS and the ICEL chant mass, while watching and waiting to see what else is published.

"I don't remember seeing any good choral masses for special celebrations."

Dear CharlesW, I don't think there are any. However, without "opening a can of worms," a question: why would a choral Mass be contained in a pew book? Thanks, if you can clarify.

I mentioned that I didn't look at it enough to do justice to the hymnal. I will look at it, at a later time. Many hymnals are available in both a choir and pew edition. Sounds like you are telling me this one isn't.

By choral masses, I mean something similar to the following. I am buying the Schubert German Mass cards arranged by Proulx, to put in the pews. I am also getting the choral editions (SATB) for the choir. At certain times of the year, it is a welcome relief to do something that isn't chant. I love chant, but even I get a bit tired of it when it is a year round thing. So does the congregation.

Also, the pastor has this thing about clutter in the hymnal racks. He wants a book that will do nearly everything. That's how we ended up with Ritual Song some years ago. The decision to buy it was before my time at the parish. I am not sure we are going to find one hymnal that will cover all bases.

Sure. We have had to tape the text for the revised Gloria and the Creed into Ritual Song. I will have to convince the pastor that buying VII and doing this is a good idea.

We are under a mandate in this diocese to use only three mass settings for one year until Advent. The settings are Latin chant, ICEL chant, and Misa Luna. After about a month of use, the pastor said he never wanted to hear Misa Luna again. His complaints were musical, yes, but he was really upset with all the repetitions and re-phrasings in Misa Luna. He felt the text undermined the whole point in having a revised missal, since it didn't follow the missal exactly.

I am looking ahead to Advent, when we can use other settings. I will keep the Latin and ICEL chants for use during seasons of the year. The congregation really likes the Schubert, which is why I am buying it from GIA. I will be looking around for at least two more settings for us to use. I think having 5 or 6 mass settings the congregation knows and can sing at any time is a good thing.

And I did say my examination of VII was anything but thorough. I will, of course, have to give it a closer look.

Many thanks for the information.

Dear Charles in CenCA,

Thank you for your kind clarifications. I will surely read your article in the sister site, "Chant Cafe."

Regarding the blend of music in the Saint Augustine Hymnal (SAH): The editorial team worked very diligently to ensure a strong representation of quality sacred music from a broad range of genres. For example, in an examination of the first category of the SAH (ADVENT), you will discover:
2 Titles of chant (Mode I and IV)
11 Titles from other publishers
3 Public Domain hymns
8 ILP titles, 4 with organ/choir accompaniment, 2 with full orchestral/choir accompaniment, and 2 with pianistic accompaniment (one set to traditional text).

Although each category of the hymnal is varied (including those that feature the new Ora Canta genre), we have intentionally balanced the types of sacred music to the benefit of main line Catholic parishes that require a balance of well-written contemporary titles with long-standing traditional treasures. Through the Saint Augustine Hymnal, parishes have access to a more comprehensive repertoire.

Surely, we respect the ideals of this forum. And, although there may be parishes that yearn for only a more traditional approach to Divine Worship, the prevailing majority of parishes in the United States and English-speaking world demand a broad repertoire that spans a spectrum of styles and form. ILP is dedicated to ensuring that, no matter the style or genre, the music is of the highest competency and the texts are faithful to the theology of our Catholic faith.

Should the members of this forum take the time to genuinely inspect the contents of the SAH, I doubt that you will argue the beauty and richness of new titles, such as: "Come, Enter Our Hearts" (McDevitt/Mann), "Holy Is the Night" (Wolpert), "Remember You Are Dust" (Higginbotham), "Be Near Me, Lord" (Feiten), "Veni, Sancte Spiritus" (Martinez), "As the Deer Thirsts" (Canter), "Hosanna to the King of Kings" (Aldridge), "In My Time of Trouble" (Timmons), "Psalm 22: My God, My God" (Fishel), "Surely He Has Borne Our Griefs" (Holtz), "Breathe on Me, Breath of God" (Gonzalez), "At the Name of Jesus" (Cowan), plus many beautifully set texts by Andrew Hofer, OP, Ralph Wright, OSB, and a myriad of others written by the ILP cadre of more than 90 composers and authors.

Perhaps I misunderstood the psalm of our brother/sister publishers. However, as I visit parishes across the country, it seems that the preponderance of OCP psalms are witten by Alstott, and I recall seeing an announcement that one of the GIA hymnals would feature the psalm settings of Guimont. I will certainly look into this for further clarification; thank you for bring this to my attention.

In the SAH, 34 composers contributed to the selection of settings for the three-year cycle. They are of varied musical interpretations; but all are eminently sing-able. When you have a moment, listen to: "Ps 42: Like a Deer" (Whitfield), "Ps 23: The Lord Is My Shepherd" (Krieg), "Ps 62: Rest in God Alone" (Whitfield), among many others from Holtz, Terwilliger, Fishel et al.

Dear Mike R,

I am mystified by your general characterization. The SAH is rich with hymns from the 4th Century ("Let All Mortal Flesh" - St. James Liturgy), ancient chant, Latin hymns, English hymns, new traditional-style hymns, contemporary music from post-Vatican II composers (from varied publishers), as well as a limited amount of "Praise & Worship" style titles. There are many Catholic parishes that require ALL of these styles. Our great concern is that our young Catholics do not live only on a diet of "P&W," lest they be unwittingly led to another tradition that will not bequest them the fullness of our rich deposit of believing. These titles are present in the SAH to ensure a broad and full diet for substantive musical Divine Worship.

I offer this as a helpful clarification. Perhaps you will want to take a closer look.


Dear JMO and CharlesW,

You might be interested in knowing that the SAH features several choral Mass settings worth your time reviewing:
"Mass of Renewal" by Kauffman/Gokelman won top honors at NPM nearly two years ago, and was selected by several thousand attendees out of 173 submissions. The SAH is the only hymnal to include it. William Gokelman is the head of sacred music at Incarnate Word University in San Antonio, and David Kauffman is a highly respected national presenter/clinician. The balance of Gokelman's classical training and Kauffman's contemporary writing have produced an eminently beautiful work.
"Mass of Saint Augustine" by Higginbotham was composed for organ, choir and assembly.
"Mass of Christ the King" by Terwilliger/Holtz is an organ, choir and assembly work.
"Mass of the Incarnate Word" by Whitfield, and "Mass of the Good Shepherd" (Hughes) are also written to be choir/assembly/organ works.

In January of 2013, ILP will release the Choral Edition of the Saint Augustine Hymnal, with well-crafted SATB harmonizations. It might be worth noting that some parishes are purchasing the SATB edition for the pews.

Lastly, ILP can also help you with the plastic sleeves, if you need some direction. However, please proceed with caution. Although ILP and GIA print our Hard Cover hymnals here in the United States (I can not speak for the others), we have been forewarned that inserting a booklet into the back of the most well-bound hymnal can compromise the durability of its binding.

God's blessings on your important work.

Vince Ambrosetti
Publisher, ILP

The thank button does not do your post justice, Jenny. I couldn't put my thoughts into words right now, but you just did.

As Jenny said, more or less ... to each his/her own. I'll come down on Jenny's side.

SAH features several choral Mass settings worth your time reviewing:
"Mass of Renewal" by Kauffman/Gokelman won top honors at NPM nearly two years ago, and was selected by several thousand attendees out of 173 submissions. The SAH is the only hymnal to include it. William Gokelman is the head of sacred music at Incarnate Word University in San Antonio, and David Kauffman is a highly respected national presenter/clinician. The balance of Gokelman's classical training and Kauffman's contemporary writing have produced an eminently beautiful work.
"Mass of Saint Augustine" by Higginbotham was composed for organ, choir and assembly.
"Mass of Christ the King" by Terwilliger/Holtz is an organ, choir and assembly work.
"Mass of the Incarnate Word" by Whitfield, and "Mass of the Good Shepherd" (Hughes) are also written to be choir/assembly/organ works.

I assume that there are YouTube recordings of these online? If so, perhaps you can provide a URL ?

As I've been reminded not just a few times here and elsewhere, the internet is not an environment where one should expect aid and comfort or warm fuzzies. As others before him, Mr. Ambrosetti coming to this forum with his agenda involved a risk that he decided was worth the time and trouble and, obviously, scrutiny. I think the most beneficial dialogue in response to all regarding his publication lies in the forensic model that Chonak's perspective always provides. Judgments and invective, whether they're justly leveled or not, are not gospel values and last I checked, Jesus is still driving the bus. And we've been down this road before with folks like David Haas, which resulted in the cold reality that dialogue with him is evidently dead. I don't take any pleasure in the estrangement between fellow Catholic Christians, particularly when there are many more injustices in our own Body that we could ameliorate by prayer and acts of kindness.
Most of a number of CMAA folk used to try to keep the "peace talks" with PrayTell folk have resigned from that cause. Jackson and I appear to be the last two who still think it worth the risk to keep communications open. So, to some portion of the liturgical/ecclesial world, it appears our two sites have their backs to each other, and face away. What does that witness to? There's no silver nor gold at stake. pardon the pun reference. No, it's just about perceptions of righteousness and respect.
Everyone take a breath, maybe remember St. Francis' prayer, and have a great day.

@Vince Ambrosetti, Are all the songs in your hymnal approved by a Bishop? If so, which Bishop? If they are not approved by a Bishop, they cannot be used in Church. Below is a letter I recently sent to OCP and GIA.

Carbon-Copy:
Msgr. Richard Hilgartner, U.S. Bishops’ Secretariat for Divine Worship

Dear OCP and GIA,

I am student at __________________. Currently, I have returned home, and am directing music at the local parish in ________________. When I arrived home for the summer, my pastor informed me that we can no longer do hymns as we had been doing for Entrance and Communion. He says they need a Bishop's approval. Specifically, he pointed out that the 2011 G.I.R.M. says the only songs that can be used for Entrance or Communion are as follows:

(4) another liturgical chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop.

I have been doing some research, and I have discovered the following:

A. The USCCB approval in the liturgical hymnals does not apply to the Hymns:

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Msgr. Richard Hilgartner wrote:
I point out that the designation in hymnals “published with the approval of the Conference of Bishops” applies only to liturgical texts per se, and not to hymnody or other paraphrased texts. Those are subject to the approval of local ecclesiastical authority, e.g., an imprimatur or nihil obstat, which assess the content of texts which are not drawn directly from liturgical books. [taken from the SSG forum]

B. If I can find a Bishop in the USA to approve these hymn books, I can use them.

In most cases, as in the case of music, the bishop of the diocese where a piece is published grants the imprimatur or permission to publish. That designation is not limited to use within that particular diocese. [taken from CMAA forum]

C. On February 1st, 2012, Bari Colombari of OCP stated that "Glory & Praise" does not have the approval of any Bishop for the hymns.

I am looking to find out if any U.S. Bishop has approved the hymns in GIA's Worship IV or OCP's Glory & Praise. If so, can you photo-copy a letter to this effect I can show my pastor? I am very frustrated by all this.

The Vatican II Hymnal and the Adoremus Hymnal (all editions) both have the approval of the Bishop. At the college I attend, we use them. But at my home parish, we don't have either of those hymnals.

Joy, I was NOT disagreeing with you, in case you didn't notice. I have no dog in this hunt. Please understand that I stand with you on your basic point about how we couch our charity.

@Vince Ambrosetti, From your answers above, I now understand that the songs in your St. Augustine Hymn book lack approval from a Bishop for liturgical use in the United States. May I gently encourage you to consider doing this? I assume it would be as easy as sending a copy to your local Bishop.

Dear Charles in CenCA,

Your points are well taken. I do believe that it is both possible and necessary to be honest about differences; however, it is essential that we do so with respect and humility. To address those differences with arrogance and harsh condemnations is contrary to the very faith that we profess.

I came to this forum expecting honest, respectful dialogue. I intend to continue to participate as long as we all work toward advancing the mission of Christ, not our own.

Which brings me to the point of your word "agenda." It's a fair word; I suppose that each of us (and all of us collectively) have an agenda. ILP's is simple: We are the oldest free-standing non-profit publisher of sacred music in the United States. We are dedicated to serving God and His people with the highest and best that we have to offer. We have sacrificed much over the years to this end, and we are committed to doing so for generations to come. No one benefits from personal gain through this mission.

The Saint Augustine Hymnal is the fruit of the heartfelt labor, faith and sacrificial love of many, many talented, dedicated people. If it does not represent the desired repertoire of a particular forum member, we ask simply that said forum member demonstrate respect for a great work that is different from his or her preference.

I presume that everyone in this forum is involved for the noblest of reasons; may we always give one another the benefit of believing this is so.

In God, the Giver of Life,

Vince Ambrosetti
Publisher, ILP

Dear JMO,

I'm heading into meetings, but I will follow up with you as soon as possible.

God's blessings,

Vince Ambrosetti
Publisher, ILP