Singing at communion on Good Friday
  • nun_34nun_34
    Posts: 66
    Nothing is prescribed. Do you sing something anyway?
    In the past we have sung the antiphon below (unison, acapella), but I'm considering leaving it off because we'll be chanting the Passion Gospel this year for the first time in ages. What do you think / what is your experience?
    Thanks!
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  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    The Bach harmonization of O Lamm Gottes unshuldig is sublime. But since you would be singing it unison a cappella, something else might work just as well.
    Thanked by 1nun_34
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    Burgess & Palmer (Plainchant Gradual) give verses of Ps. 22.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 967
    The 1967 Graduale Simplex had the antiphon Dominus tamquam ovis (The Lord was led like a lamb to the slaughter and did not open his mouth; Is. 53:7) with Psalm 22 ad libitum during communion on Good Friday.

    The chant is absent from the 1975 edition of the Simplex...

    image

    In English, this antiphon can also be found in The Simple Gradual (1969). A composition of Paul Inwood:

    image
    Thanked by 2SrEleanor nun_34
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    I presume that the lack of music is due to General Communion on Good Friday being a modern innovation...

    Anyway we do sing something at our EF Mass, usually 'In monteo livis consito' this is the Matins Hymn for the Feast of the Holy Rosary, and has verses on the sorrowful mysteries.

    Jesu dulcis memoria, would be another option we usually sing the version found in the Dominican Processional that has plenty of verses.
    Thanked by 1nun_34
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Two options:
    "Think of the Son of God"
    "O Lamb of God, All Holy" (but with a less forced English text)
    Thanked by 1nun_34
  • Yes. Because in a church with a relative young congregation, the noise made by small children rises unacceptably if there is not music. The what varies depending on who is available.
    Thanked by 1nun_34
  • lmassery
    Posts: 405
    Doesn't the Roman Missal suggest Psalm 22?
  • ...the noise made...

    Oh, no! Really???
    So music is to mask noise?
    Come to think of it -
    this is why we have carpeting foisted off on us, is it not?
    Thanked by 1JonathanKK
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694

    "Think of the Son of God"


    What's with the poisoned dart?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Here is Psalm 22, in English, with Anglican chant verses (BCP text).
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    We do choral music like the following:

    O Sorrow Deep by David Hurd
    O vos omnes by Victoria
    Crux fidelis by King John of Portugal
    Adoramus te, Christe by Villanueva or Palestrina
    Ave verum corpus by Byrd, Des Pres or several others (not Mawby!!! because of
    the organ part and the wrong affect).
    Ecce quomodo by Ingegneri

    If I were to use a congregational piece, it would probably be Ps 22 set to a simple original tone.

    I see no reason not to sing during this time.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen nun_34
  • L Massery,

    Doesn't the Roman Missal suggest Psalm 22?


    Actually, my Missal proposes Psalm 21 -- containing the text which Jesus preached from the Cross.


    Is this the result of a change in the numbering system?
  • rschi123
    Posts: 13
    We will sing this version of Psalm 21(22) during Communion on Good Friday as well as during the stripping of the altar on Holy Thursday. OF.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,962
    Yep. One is the Septuagint number, the new system is the Masoretic number.
    Thanked by 1Salieri
  • Oh, no! Really???
    So music is to mask noise?
    Come to think of it -
    this is why we have carpeting foisted off on us, is it not?

    Not so much to mask noise, as to create alternative noise so that short (or other) people don't spot a gap in which they can make noise themselves.

    Complain all you want, but this phenomena is widely noticed: Sacred silence is achievable in monasteries. But in real world communities we have kids of parents who aren't so devout, adults with intellectual disabilities, older people whose muttering may or may not be early-stage dementia, vehicles with sirens driving past, air conditioning humming and all sorts of other distractions.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Sacred silence is great until the inevitable boisterous ringtone.
  • ...alternative noise...

    While I appreciate what you have said, and offer you sympathy for vexation resulting from the unkind parents and their ungoverned children at your parish, I must adamantly assert that music is not noise, 'alternative', or otherwise.

    Music is music. It is, inherently, an act of worship. It serves a liturgical and spiritual function either by its presence or absence (as at moments during Lent). It exists to aedify and spiritually illuminate. If it's only purpose is to mask the noise of children whose parents haven't the parenting skills to teach them reverence from birth (and I've seen too many do just that to accept the insistence of some that it's not possible!), it is being cheapened and sacrileged - 'used' in the worst sense of the word. As for me, I should rather listen to the 'noise' that you describe and love the little ones than to try to be moved by some unfortunate music which was being performed to mask it (which would, it seems to me, only add another level of frustration!).

    Nor is sacred silence achieved only in monasteries. It may be experienced wherever people genuinely want it and inculcate it in parish liturgical life, including amongst their youth, their children, and even their suckling babes. We don't have this problem where I go to church.

    And, a little off subject: concerning noise: it is a very serious problem in our American culture. Atmospheric noise assaults us everywhere we go, especially if we live in a large city. Noise is psychologically and spiritually destructive, is proven to result in lower IQ, and, whether it is screaming, ill-bred children, or machines, or free-way or airport, or any other kind of noise, we become inured to it at our mental and spiritual peril. Schopenhauer noticed quite some time ago that intelligence decreased in inverse proportion to one's ability to withstand noise undisturbed. I think that he was spot on!

    Back to music, though. Musical sound waves are quite different from those of 'noise'. Music's sound waves are regular, beautiful and repetitive patterns on a graph, whereas those of noise are (and they're really ugly) very irregular, jagged, and totally random and ungoverned unregulated sound without any tonal focus or artistry at all. So! Music and noise, phenomenologically, are two very distinct categories of sound.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen JonathanKK
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I hav a setting of psalm 22. will try to post later today
  • lmassery
    Posts: 405
    The Roman Missal says ""During communion, Psalm 22 (21) or another appropriate chant may be sung."
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • We have sung Unus militum (Communion, Sacred Heart) with Psalm 88(89) as suggested by the 1974 Graduale Romanum.

    Psalm 21(22) also successfully pairs with the antiphon on Good Friday—especially in light of the rubric in the Missal.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Elmar
    Posts: 500
    M. Jackson Osborn,

    While completely agreeing with your points about the fundamental difference between music and noise, and the inherent relation of the former to worship and the spiritual in general, I respectfully disagree with:

    the noise of children whose parents haven't the parenting skills to teach them reverence from birth (and I've seen too many do just that to accept the insistence of some that it's not possible!)


    Quite to the contrary, I've seen too many parents that are obviously more skilled than I am, struggling with their over-active children, to accept the insistence that bad behavior of children is mostly due to parental failiure (of course it sometimes is).
    More generally, I oppose the whole idea that human behavior is mainly determined by upbringing, education and other external influences; to me this thinking neglects too much original sin and free will (which obviously exist already in children).
    I always refuse complimets about our well-behaved children, I see it as a blessing, not an achievement.

    By the way, I'm going to suggest 'O vos omnes' (Vittoria) for communion on Good Friday. Not to mask any childrens' noise, though; I do not expect any children to come anyway ...
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • All music is "just noise" to people who have not been educated to appreciate the particular genre: I'm sure that many of the readers here would find much of the rock / pop / electronic and even folk genres to be very unpleasant noise indeed, no matter how pretty their graphs might look.

    And while I agree that most kids can be parented to be well behaved:
    1) there are a few who genuinely cannot due to disabilities etc, and
    2) there are some parents simply aren't well enough educated / motivated / time-endowed to be able to do so.

    In some parishes, it's considered acceptable to be so rude to the 2nd category of parents that they never come back again. Personally I'd never consider joining a parish like that.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I can handle child noise because they are being - shock, horror, amazement - children. Granted, there are excesses and extremes of that. It's the adults with ringing cell phones I would like to mangle.
    Thanked by 3CCooze Elmar canadash
  • Pax -
    You offer some sober thoughts. However, much as I hate to admit it, the awful species of music you list above are, technically, music. They cannot, technically, be called noise. And that, I think, is what makes experiencing them even more onerous. They are (some of them) musical pornography - or, as I sometimes say, 'pornophony'. Now, before I get jumped on, I will admit that C&W is not porn, nor a lot of pop, and other musics which irritate me. But there really is some music which is just that, pornophony - and this music often has 'lyrics' which are, actually, pornographic. There is a plethora of music channeled into teen minds, and adult ones, too, that is, without question, self-evidently, spiritual and intellectual poison.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • nun_34nun_34
    Posts: 66
    We have been learning Vittoria's O Vos Omnes (glad to see your suggestion Elmar) -- we'll break it in on a weekday this year. Then we'll be more confident for (Our Lady of Sorrows? and) Palm Sunday next year.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • More generally, I oppose the whole idea that human behavior is mainly determined by upbringing, education and other external influences; to me this thinking neglects too much original sin and free will (which obviously exist already in children).
    What's your stand on evolution?
    Thanked by 1MBW
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Our bishop actually requested the Vexilla Regis this year, which was a pleasant surprise. The past two years, he's preached on "hymns of Good Friday/Holy Week", which is really enjoyable.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    One of my settings of O Vos Omnes

    http://myopus.com/oVosOmnes.html

    There are links to see and hear a preview of the score.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Yep. One is the Septuagint number, the new system is the Masoretic number.

    This reminds me of how glad I am that we no longer have to double (or dual) date. Imagine having to write things like
    18 March, 2015/16

    or worse. But I digress...
  • Elmar
    Posts: 500
    Noel,
    Maybe I do not quite get the relation of your question
    What's your stand on evolution?

    to my previous remark:
    More generally, I oppose the whole idea that human behavior is mainly determined by upbringing, education and other external influences; to me this thinking neglects too much original sin and free will (which obviously exist already in children).

    I'll give it a try.
    Predisposition of human behavior is influenced by both inherited aspects and environmental influences (part of which is education). On the background of this predisposition, one can make actual choices of behavior (sometimes easily, sometimes not so easily) by free will.

    Inherited behavioral traits evolve from generation to generation. E.g., in long periods of wars, people with tendency to violence may have a smaller survival chance than 'naturally' peaceful people, while in long stretches of peace, predisposition of individual violent behavior may spread genetically (something we observe in recent decades in the western world). This tendency is not the fault of incapableable parents, nor the individuals themselves; I'd call it a manifestation of original sin.
    No determination of individuals, even whole societies, to wilfully overcome these behavioral traits can ever eliminate them; I see this as a manifestation of the impossibility of self-salvation of man from original sin.

    Is this what you were asking for?


  • Predisposition..... inherited aspects....

    Yes, Somewhere it's writ in holy writ that 'the sins of their fathers shall be visited upon them unto the tenth generation'. In other words: 'genes'.
    But, whilst there are those children who defy all efforts to make civilised people out of them and turn out to be brats of various stripes, there are others whose parents know, without raising their voices, how to expect and receive respect and civilised behaviour. (Sometimes one can observe the parent and see just where the 'bratness' comes from.) Ne'ertheless bratty children, given more talented parents, are less likely to be brats. Most loathesome of all are those parents who make no effort to govern their children in public places. Then there are the ones who scream at and hit their children, and are then surprised when their children are unruly and violent. To reprise: yes, some children are incorrigible - most are exemplary of whatever their home life and parenting is like.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • We sing Allegri's Miserere. Works with a large number of communicants. Choir receives first so there is some prayerful silence.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    We sing Allegri's Miserere. Works with a large number of communicants. Choir receives first so there is some prayerful silence.


    We have learned it this year and will be doing the same. This will be our new offering for the Triduum.
  • Hope to see you at the Colloquium and we can compare notes! Such a deceptively simple piece!
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    Psalm 22 is the appointed psalm for communion on Good Friday, so here's my setting of Psalm 22 from yesterday's Mass. The video was badly out of focus, but the audio is fairly accurate:

    http://youtu.be/vDn7HXueFww

    Enjoy!