Introducing myself....
  • That said, I think it would be good for you to start to obediently try to do what the Church prefers, rather than what She allows.


    The cursed piano proficiency exam which nearly every conservatory at the time required was one of the biggest obstacles between myself and the degree that I did not get.

    If it's simply a matter of keying chords on an organ to keep everyone's voices in tune and in time, I could do that in very short order with a bit of woodshedding. Whereas on my own instrument, I can already play preludes, fantasies, fugues, canons, sightread any melody, with a few run throughs apply a figured bass to that melody, with a few more run throughs arppegiate the harmonic structure of the melody with figured bass, ...if the parish grew to the point that the priest and the congregants wanted that done by an organist, then I would simply defer to a skilled organist. Then again, if that is what the congregants wanted, the cathedral seat equipped with a fully functioning pipe organ is only a few miles to the west of this parish.

    I should also mention that although this parish is 15 minutes from my house, it is across the river in another state. Meaning another diocese. I have found that how much that means depends on who I am talking to.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Salieri
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,963
    Why should people in a parish be deprived of the organ? Obviously cathedrals should have the best program, but I think that ought to be centered on daily capitular Mass & office (which we do not have in these USA). Parishes should have sung/solemn Mass and office at least on Sundays and feasts. Were there even attempts to make things more even we would have a far different scenario.
  • Why should people in a parish be deprived of the organ? Obviously cathedrals should have the best program, but I think that ought to be centered on daily capitular Mass & office (which we do not have in these USA). Parishes should have sung/solemn Mass and office at least on Sundays and feasts. Were there even attempts to make things more even we would have a far different scenario.


    I have found in these last five years that many parishes, especially the ones on the small town outskirts of the diocese, rely on volunteers for their music. In these cases, they get what they get. And it is -those- situations where I have at times wondered if I could serve in some type of quasi troubadour fashion. Like him or not, that's pretty much exactly what John Michael Talbot (did I just say 3 dirty words?) did in his early days.

    So what do you suggest? These parishes need to be equipped with a working organ, or have their existing organs rehabbed, and the organs maintained. I would think that if at his stage of my life, I was to learn something new, it would be applying my mechanical and craftsman skills to -that- end, although I would not have a clue where to start the learning process when it comes to the nuts and bolts of how an organ works. And then these organs would need to be staffed. Have each diocese maintain a staff of musical directors/organists that can be doled out to individual parishes in the same manner as a diocesan priest? Have the various orders that provide supplemental priests do the same?
  • 5) If you have a pastor who has unaccompanied singing as the default position, since you've been given this gift, why not use it? Encourage the congregation to sing, to hear itself honoring God.

    One time, a fellow choir member showed us a worship aid that asked that you sing using these words:
    If you don't want to sing, you should come out of yourself and sing because God gave you a voice, so He deserves to hear it.
    This parish appears a strong and true example of this statement. I applaud you for the role that you are taking on and the call that you are answering in this church. You appear to desire what all of us church musicians should desire: Using music to glorify God. I remember when I had a church choir that didn't have any electricity to the sound system and they decided to do the mass a capella and the whole congregation sang because they knew it was a necessity. This might not be the case in your church once you introduce instruments, however, you could include a quote in the front of your hymnals or have the cantor announce that before the mass. Also, you could occasionally do hymns a capella just to reinforce the principle. Thank you so much for answering God's calling and looking for music to glorify God even more. I pray for you and your vocation in this wonderful endeavour.
    Thanked by 1Ken_Whisler
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    The following is a paraphrase of an announcement seen in a parish bulletin.

    Reasons why you should join the choir or least sing in church:

    )1) God gave you a beautiful voice with great skills, and this is the place to use it.
    (2) God gave you an average voice, and this is an opportunity for you to improve upon it.
    (3) God gave you a terrible voice with no skills, and this is your chance to get even.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    I rather doubt 'the church' prefers bad organ playing to beautiful guitar playing. If you cared about my blessing though, you'd take up the sackbut and teach three others in the congregation to do the same ;-)
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    take up the sackbut and teach three others in the congregation to do the same

    Hear, hear! Excellent instruments for accompanying voices! Playing bass sackbut when I was in Virginia was a great joy. The ensemble also included cornetti and, at times, krumhoms.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I am familiar with the sackbut. She sits in front of me from time to time.

  • I have come to believe, and firmly, that if people are willing to abide or argue for an orchestral Mass, then they should also be willing to abide and argue for a Mass which makes us of a guitar in some way.


    Yes.
  • Noel,

    You astonish me, but I won't be able to read your reply until next Sunday. If we can argue for an orchestral Mass (which I don't, fwiw) at least that could be said to be a result of an understanding of the august ceremonies of the Church's public worship of God. A guitar, because by itself it can't accompany ordinary, propers or motets, is many things, but not at the same level as an orchestral Mass.

    Cheers,

    Chris
  • Chris, do the words "miniature orchestra" ring any bells?
  • Ken,

    No, actually, they don't. That's ok, because even a small orchestra is better than a guitar.
  • Ken,

    No, actually, they don't. That's ok, because even a small orchestra is better than a guitar.


    It was Beethoven that coined the phrase in response to hearing Mauro Guiliani play.

    I witnessed the Camerata Bern with guest artist Narcisco Yepes near overpower the Folly Theatre without mics, and that was more a large string ensemble than a small orchestra. Methinks a small orchestra would be too much for this small urban parish.
  • Ken, keep on keepin' on.
    I know that phrase- and I'm thinking many of us who were awake in music history classes should remember it.
    The guitar can do amazing things, folks.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    It remains a source of profound astonishment that copious amounts of lather and blather still surround the mention of the word "guitar." It must be, for Catholic rigorists, the Hatfield/McCoy issue of their lives. Really? From my cave abode I still ascribe integrity to the performer, not the medium. There may be a forest of bad history and bad performers on any number of instruments (it's an instrument, not the music itself,) but that doesn't mean there's not a strong cedar, mahogany, koa or spruce tree that stands as an exception to all the "rules." The point being, it's about the singing, silly wabbits. One could build a sufficient defense that a jaw harp could support singing well. But that ludicrous task comes no where's near the reality that's been denied by the militia of organist decriers of all things not organ, that singing remains nonetheless supported by other capable instruments and instrumentalists with sacred walls eight days a week. It's no skin off my red nose whenever I'm reminded of the kingship of a pipe organ serving at worship, I'll buy that. But it's otherwise a waste of time (which I've indulged here and now) to beat this "topic" into submission.
    The only question remaining: "Are they singing?" After that, diagnosing what texts they're singing or not, who are the players on the stage, et cetera can be addressed.
    Back into lurkerdom....
    Thanked by 1Ken_Whisler
  • Chris has obviously failed to listen ken's recordings, otherwise he would see that he doesn't have a string to stand on...
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    I have the perfect solution to allow you to play the organ.

    900 x 626 - 111K
  • I have the perfect solution to allow you to play the organ.


    I actually had a fleeting thought to try a Godin Multiac triggering midi'd organ samples for this. If I ever voice that again, will one of you grab the nearest plank and whack me upside the head?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I have five multiacs (my latest the seven string semi hollow), and never have had the hubris to do so. Just because one can, doesn't mean one ought to.
  • ***update*** I attended a second mass at this parish yesterday and am meeting with the pastor tomorrow. A lot of the mass here is recited in Latin; the gloria, the agnus dei to the best of my memory, and the priest does the consecration facing the altar and the Cross. He's heard my CD and is most definitely open to the idea. Although I see some modern idioms sparingly "working" in this parish (Matt Maher's more introspective and praise oriented stuff comes to mind), this is definitely no place for hippie-dippie Kum-Ba-Yah strumming.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,296
    Good to hear, Ken. I appreciate the update! I hope your work bears fruit.
    Thanked by 1Ken_Whisler
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    Sounds like a "win win" here.
    Thanked by 1Ken_Whisler
  • Sounds like a promising situation to me. Best wishes.

    FYI I'm curious about modal guitar accompaniments for chant hymns. Those using a largely contrapuntal texture would be of great interest to me. The guitar does this so well. I'm thinking about the benefits of Gregorian chant in nursing homes and hospitals.
  • MaryAnn, point me to a few examples of what you have in mind, and I will have a go at them for the sake of practice.
  • Thanks, melofluent. I already have Garno's big book of (Protestant) hymns and never really got into them...they struck me as vanilla. I am familar with this book and have never had much reason to buy it. As it sits now, especially after meeting with the pastor today, my game plan is to arrange chants myself weekly as I need to. After a season or two of that, I should have plenty to fall back on in the coming years....along with an intimate knowledge of their flow and application. We were very much on the same page in our vision of liturgical music.