What about those of us who are "practicing Catholics" in the sense of "If we keep practicing, we'll be ready for public performance"? Those who have Wife Problems and therefore haven't been admitted to the Sacraments?

Chris, this may not be the answer you are looking for...but yes, a music director should be a practicing Catholic, and not living a lifestyle that causes scandal.

That does NOT mean that they've never sinned. Some of the most notorious sinners wound up the greatest saints (Tomas a Becket and Augustine to name two). Just means that they should while in a leadership role not be causing scandal among the faithful.

Not directed to the above poster, but just a thought of my own. Does anyone have a private life anymore? People who are strangers seem willing to share the most intimate details of their lives. With social media, it has become ridiculous. Does anyone really want to know that Bob couldn't take a shower because the family used all the hot water? I have actually seen that. Being discreet is good!

Let's make a distinction.

"Practicing Catholic" is not the same as "[having] upstanding character." One may be both, one may be none-of-the-above, and one might be one or the other.

Let's also drop the straw-man of 'sinless,' as suggested above.

Seems to me that "liturgical knowledge" is implicit in 'practicing Catholic.' Yes, there are Lut'rans, Methodists, Baptists (etc.) who have a good grasp of 'liturgy' and who have an exemplary character. But none of those sects understand priesthood in the Catholic sense, for openers. And since almost all Prot worship (excluding High Anglican) is hymn-based, do they 'get' Propers? Ordinaries? Do they understand the value of silence and when that should be used? Another issue: do they understand the church choir to be both representative of the people AND representative of the choir of angels, as did Mgr. Schuler of the Twin Cities?

As to "upstanding character": shall we introduce the question of artificial birth control? Hmmmmm?

Back to Hiring 101: write the job description well, interview with skill, and reference-check thoroughly.

People who are strangers seem willing to share the most intimate details of their lives. With social media, it has become ridiculous. Does anyone really want to know that Bob couldn't take a shower because the family used all the hot water? I have actually seen that. Being discreet is good!

The best posts on Facebook are when people post about the mundane things that happen to them in their lives. Silly observations about things at the grocery store, complaining about being awake at odd times, ridiculous food items they find at various locations (a BACON BOARD? Like a cheese board but with different kinds of BACON instead of different kinds of cheese? For real?), complaining about a busy schedule that really isn't that busy at all, asking about various types of furniture (has anyone ever used a standing desk, by the way? Thoughts?), and complaining about how hard it is to keep a white suit clean when you wear it weekly.

These are the posts that I enjoy on social media outlets. Not controversial ones.

Seems to me that "liturgical knowledge" is implicit in 'practicing Catholic.' Yes, there are Lut'rans, Methodists, Baptists (etc.) who have a good grasp of 'liturgy' and who have an exemplary character. But none of those sects understand priesthood in the Catholic sense, for openers. And since almost all Prot worship (excluding High Anglican) is hymn-based, do they 'get' Propers? Ordinaries? Do they understand the value of silence and when that should be used? Another issue: do they understand the church choir to be both representative of the people AND representative of the choir of angels, as did Mgr. Schuler of the Twin Cities?

* "Liturgical knowledge" is implicit in "practicing Catholic" may be an ideal, but probably not a reality for many.
* There are indeed Lutherans (your so-called and perhaps not so nicely termed "Lut'rans"), Methodists, Baptists who actually do happen to understand priesthood in the Catholic sense, for openers, but who do not happen to hold it as a tenet of their faith.
* More than just "High" Anglicans "get" Propers & Ordinaries.
* Yes, "they" understand the value of silence and when it can or should be used, perhaps more so than your typical happy-clappy post Vatican II inculcated Catholics who always have to have something going on, even if it is "strolling" music being noodled on the organ or piano or guitar or Lord knows what. Indeed, you've apparently not seen the item in many a Protestant church bulletin labelled "Silent Prayer" ... something made explicit and explicitly observed.
* Do you assert that "they" do not understand the church choir as representative in the way you assert? If so, please cite evidence. I'm not sure that very many Catholics of the post Vatican II persuasion understand this.

Please don't attack others, especially when your attack seems to me rather ill-informed, when we already have enough problems of our own in our own Catholic church. I'm a convert to Catholicism, with some appreciation of the strengths and weaknesses of our non-Catholic brethren. Your characterization simply does not jibe with my own experience.

Are they Catholics, once, twice or more removed?

your typical happy-clappy post Vatican II inculcated Catholics

Unfortunately, there are episcopal churches where all this are understood and embraced while 99% of Catholic parishes do not.

While I agree with you Chuck, I don't see anything wrong with any church deciding to restrict staff positions to members of their own faith.

In a Catholic church, I don't see and issue with hiring a non-Catholic organist, or a choir director even (as long as they don't cantor), if the music director doesn't possess that skill set. The music director should be Catholic, as should the cantors particularly if they proclaim the Responsorial Psalm. That's my take on the various documents I've read. As usual...YMMV.

Sorry to disagree with you Fr. but according to the dictionary definition of sect, which you may read here...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sect

Most of our separated brethren are members of a sect. Particularly Methodists and Lutherans, who's founders did subdivide from the Catholic church.

Now lest you think I'm slamming Methodists or Lutherans...the Christian witness of one of my daughters is Methodist and my mother's whole family is Lutheran.

From someone who comes from a catholic "third world" country: the Holy Mother Church does not need musicians in order to exist. Let's not forget we are catholics first and foremost. We are all at the service of our mother church which is in itself a blessing.

I could not possibly agree more that professional positions in the Church should be held by Catholics.

Now the "faithful to teaching part" ... I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole.

Yeah, I did miss your point. I tend to gloss right over that sort of nonsense.

Since most of my family is protestant, as is much of my husband's family, I generally ignore the Protestant bashing on Catholic forums and the Catholic bashing everywhere else. Of course I ignore it when my Catholic and Protestant uncles go after each other at family functions too.

I tend to look at both the same way. As family bickering that has no useful purpose and is best ignored. In the grand scheme of things we're called to live as faithful Catholics.

If someone asks me a direct question about the faith I'll answer it, but otherwise I don't. No amount of bashing someone over the head with why my beliefs are true and theirs aren't is going to make any kind of positive impact. And before someone jumps on me for making THAT statement...

If I didn't believe that my beliefs were true and that Non-Catholics were in error...I wouldn't be Catholic. We can't all be right.

dad29

What you say about "ideal" for "practicing Catholics" is alright. I have no quibble with that. But I did (and still do) take exception to your remarks about and characterizations of certain (if not all) Protestants. They were unnecessary.

I get your point over here, and I get your point over here.

Yes, "sect" comes with connotations of "sectarianism" (narrow-minded hostility, etc.)

When the Church calls some group a "sect", it is talking about a Bad Thing: about aggressive anti-Catholic groups, and also the abusive fringe groups that popular speech calls a "cult".

On the other hand, I don't think dad29 meant to convey such an image. Well, not really.

When the Church speaks about non-Catholic Christians (i.e., groups whose baptism the Church recognizes), it calls them either "churches" (if they are Eastern Orthodox) or "ecclesial communities" (if they are not).

The latter is cumbersome terminology. So I would not be surprised if people don't use it all the time.

So if you see terminology that looks a slight --
or at least looks like a slight slight --
assume good faith and good will on the part of the person who wrote it.

Be gentle, everybody! :-)

Dictionary definitions, especially decades old, even if written by saintly priests, often fail to convey the full meanings associated with words.

[Please get back on topic somehow.]

A preference for Catholics could serve as a measure to promote the development of Catholic musicians.

I don't know whether it would fall into the category of social justice.

MACW --

Absolutely. It's necessary, but not sufficient.

Is $55 a socially just wage for a cantor? $100 for an organist? Is a piano less because it's supposed to be easier? The musicians union rates are way higher.

Nice work if you can get it...

I can think of some parishes where the music would be better if the music director didn't go to Mass. ;-)