Do We Have Two Popes?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,152
    @jesearle ... A couple of days ago, I bought 6 packages of DARK CHOCOLATE Tim-tams ... my favorite!! OF course, I also have the original chocolate as well as the caramel to go with my favorite.

    Or should I say favourite?
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,161
    Thanks, francis, for checking on Kramer's academic background. He's got a typical background for a priest, an MDiv (the STB is the ecclesiastical equivalent); so he's not highly trained in canon law.

    Thanks, CharlesW, for recalling the declaration of Pope Benedict XVI. Here's the Latin text, from the Acta:

    Fratres carissimi,

    Non solum propter tres canonizationes ad hoc Consistorium vos convocavi,
    sed etiam ut vobis decisionem magni momenti pro Ecclesiae vita
    communicem. Conscientia mea iterum atque iterum coram Deo explorata
    ad cognitionem certam perveni vires meas ingravescente aetate non iam
    aptas esse ad munus Petrinum aeque administrandum.

    Bene conscius sum hoc munus secundum suam essentiam spiritualem
    non solum agendo et loquendo exerceri debere, sed non minus patiendo et
    orando. Attamen in mundo nostri temporis rapidis mutationibus subiecto et
    quaestionibus magni ponderis pro vita fidei perturbato ad navem Sancti
    Petri gubernandam et ad annuntiandum Evangelium etiam vigor quidam
    corporis et animae necessarius est, qui ultimis mensibus in me modo tali
    minuitur, ut incapacitatem meam ad ministerium mihi commissum bene
    administrandum agnoscere debeam. Quapropter bene conscius ponderis
    huius actus plena libertate declaro me ministerio Episcopi Romae, Successoris
    Sancti Petri, mihi per manus Cardinalium die 19 aprilis MMV commisso
    renuntiare ita ut a die 28 februarii MMXIII, hora 20, sedes Romae, sedes Sancti
    Petri vacet et Conclave ad eligendum novum Summum Pontificem ab his
    quibus competit convocandum esse.

    Fratres carissimi, ex toto corde gratias ago vobis pro omni amore et
    labore, quo mecum pondus ministerii mei portastis et veniam peto pro
    omnibus defectibus meis. Nunc autem Sanctam Dei Ecclesiam curae
    Summi eius Pastoris, Domini nostri Iesu Christi confidimus sanctamque
    eius Matrem Mariam imploramus, ut patribus Cardinalibus in eligendo
    novo Summo Pontifice materna sua bonitate assistat. Quod ad me attinet
    etiam in futuro vita orationi dedicata Sanctae Ecclesiae Dei toto ex corde
    servire velim.

    Ex Aedibus Vaticanis, die 10 mensis februarii MMXIII.
    BENEDICTUS PP. XVI
    Thanked by 2eft94530 JulieColl
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    I'm at the end of my pope, er, rope here.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Jes
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    sorry about the ref to Kramer being a lawyer... I was thinking of someone else... my mistake
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    oh... i forgot about that THREE pope syndrome... yeoweee... do I have to start a new thread?

    You must have two in order to get to three.
    I suggest that, If we get to three, Then you edit the Discussion name.
    It will help to keep all this info in one place.
    Despite the chaos we will still have unity of conversation.
    Thanked by 2Richard Mix Jes
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Despite the chaos we will still have unity
    love this
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    What Canon J. Didiot, dean of the faculty of Lille, says regarding the Great Western Schism applies to the current crisis in the Church:
    If after the election of a pope and before his death or resignation a new election takes place, it is null and schismatic; the one elected is not in the Apostolic Succession. This was seen at the beginning of what is called, somewhat incorrectly, the Great Schism of the West, which was only an apparent schism from a theological standpoint. If two elections take place simultaneously or nearly so, one according to laws previously passed and the other contrary to them, the apostolicity belongs to the pope legally chosen and not to the other, and though there be doubts, discussions, and cruel divisions on this point, as at the time of the so-called Western Schism, it is no less true, no less real that the apostolicity exists objectively in the true pope. What does it matter, in this objective relation, that it [who the valid Pope is] is not manifest to all and is not recognized by all till long after? A treasure [the Pope] is bequeathed to me, but I do not know whether it is in the chest A or in the casket B. Am I any less the possessor of this treasure?
    Thanked by 2eft94530 francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    update

    https://www.barnhardt.biz/2018/11/14/edward-pentin-reports-respected-vatican-theologian-questions-juridical-validity-of-pope-benedicts-attempted-partial-resignation-calls-for-in-depth-study-and-investigation/
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    20 20 in hindsight… the conspiracy is still a question we’re all wondering about
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