All Discussions - MusicaSacra Church Music Forum https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussions/feed.rss Mon, 13 Jul 26 05:55:29 +0000 All Discussions - MusicaSacra Church Music Forum en-CA I gave up and became a truck driver. https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23488/i-gave-up-and-became-a-truck-driver. Mon, 15 Jun 2026 01:47:34 +0000 searchfgold6789 23488@/forum/discussions https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/22352/advice-needed-auditions-and-job-applications/
TL:DR; I was burned out of my first two jobs straight out of college (DMA) back to back. The first one mysteriously asked me to resign and offered me a severance package, which I took, and I never found out the real reason. The second one siphoned the organist wedding and funeral pay and refused to fix the issue, and instead the Diocese proposed to change my job description; I walked off that job, as there were other red flags too. The people here gave me wonderful advice and encouragement. As I went along being unemployed and still rejected by even the most intuitive posts, I gradually got more panicked and frustrated, as you can see from one or two of the comments. That thread left off with me still being unemployed.

We also had another baby during that time. Since I graduated, our family has spent more time on food stamps and medicaid than bringing in a non-zero household income. This should not be possible considering the alleged demand for qualified church musicians, and the well-documented "revival" of Catholicism in many parts of the country. Something is wrong here.

I wound up moving back to my home state close to family. I acquired my CDL in 7 weeks, and the state paid for it. The CDL school had job boards listing companies that were specific pipelines from that school. Instead of you applying to the job and hoping to win a contest to get the job, you talked to a recruiter and they tried to convince you to join their company - they applied to you. If you struggled to get a job, there were people who you could talk to at the school to help you.

I was hired by a local company within two weeks of graduating, and now my job is to deliver cases of soda to local restaurants and stores. The entry level trainee compensation package is better than what I made at either church job. I will not lose my job if management changes. If I do something wrong, the boss tells me what it is and I correct it. After I go home for the day, no one bothers me and I just chill with my family. I receive good health insurance mostly paid for by the company. It is a very physical job, and there is a risk of injury, but I know how to use my body thanks to Alexander technique, and I will not wear down. Instead, now I'm in the best shape of my life.

Out with it now, is the church field as we used to know it just dead/dying? I have heard of many similar stories, and the BS I went through is certainly seen as typical by my more experienced colleagues. But having gone through the process of entering the transportation field, I laugh at the fact that I jumped through so many hoops to find a low-paying church music post without even being 100% sure I'd get the job and it would last.

Maybe it's time for major changes in the church music profession. What if church music had the bare minimum professional standards that truck driving does? Then we would abolish pointless audition contests, require salary ranges to be posted, hold Dioceses accountable for mistreatment, make sure qualifications are adequately recognized, and provide standardized trainee programs - all things that most professional fields have. How do we make this happen? :)

It's still my dream to work full-time teaching people how to sing together for the liturgy, and providing glorious organ music for Mass and the Office. But it's just a dream, I guess. I tried as hard as I could, and at the end of the day I don't regret getting those degrees.]]> Volunteer Choir leaders needing guidance https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23539/volunteer-choir-leaders-needing-guidance Sun, 12 Jul 2026 15:36:03 +0000 dranzal 23539@/forum/discussions That said, a "trained" liturgist suggested to me this morning that most of what parishes do, musically, is NOT liturgical and incorrect.

1. I agree that most parishes (ALL parishes I've been to) do not know the propers/antiphons and, instead, do hymns of varying quality. How much of a problems is this "four hymn sandwich" type of planning. That's literally all I've ever experienced, even in the most conservative parish I've visited. This is all I experience at any nearby parish and even the Cathedral I visited in Idaho and the traditional Catholic college my daughter graduated from.

2. Is it appropriate at all for a choir to sing a choral piece, such as "This is My Word" by Pepper Choplin or "Surely the Presence" during or after Communion? I've seen some better choirs do this, but the liturgist I saw today very much frowned upon it, even if the words of the piece are explicitly Scriptural.

3. I saw mention of "Three Days" in another thread. The only one I know (recently learned) is Thaxted. I agree that the theology is a little soft, so I wrote an additional, theologically meaty, verse. Is this the one that everyone dislikes?

Sorry for the randomness. I'm new.]]> Draft Choir Guidelines https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23518/draft-choir-guidelines Tue, 30 Jun 2026 13:15:07 +0000 SingToJesus 23518@/forum/discussions
Some background: I came into a somewhat challenging situation in a rural parish where a certain insular entitlement seems to run deep with many people (not all). The old director (a talented amateur w/ a few years of piano lessons) let the choir go dormant for 10 years. Though she's completely retired from organist duties, she seems to believe she has entitlement to exert control over the music program.

When I was hired to renew the music program, including adding back sung mass parts (they've been speaking the mass for about 6 years) along with renewing the choir, this old director came to sing alto but undermined me repeatedly during rehearsals with her friends. They also hijacked the choir appreciation brunch w/ orchestrated, silly and petty complaints that were never discussed with me. This included a coordinated complaint that I didn't copy hymns of the day for their choir binders. (It seems they were a hymn singing group, no choral arrangements in their repertoire.) Hence, the sections addressing choir folders, and the clarification of Director's Role and Communication.

The priest is supportive and means well, but seems unable, or unwilling to manage this negative behavior, saying "they boss me around all the time and I just ignore it." However, in order to run a music ministry in service to the liturgy and church, I cannot allow entitled, domineering volunteers to "boss me around" and "just ignore it", therefore when the full choir returns I will be implementing written guidelines.

I've tried to be clear in this document and cite these higher authorites, but also be forward-looking. Your input is most welcome. I don't think most of these choir members actually realize that the diocesan code of conduct actually applies to volunteers, as well as clergy and staff, so I anticipate some surprise at these guidelines.

I've already implemented a chamber choir carve-out with positive, cooperative singers to form the new core of the music ministry, and that's going extremely well.

Thank you again for sharing your insights!]]> Well-Paid but Liturgically Miserable: What Would You Do? https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23538/well-paid-but-liturgically-miserable-what-would-you-do Sat, 11 Jul 2026 07:53:23 +0000 DominicanCantor 23538@/forum/discussions
A few years ago, I accepted a position at a large, traditionally inclined parish with a substantial music budget and only one contemporary Mass. Since then, I have increasingly felt bait-and-switched.

My pastor has restricted the use of the organ to only one of our five English-language liturgies.

I have had to lay off excellent, personally lovely professional singers and instrumentalists for multiple consecutive years because the music budget was repeatedly overpromised by higher-level leadership. That has sucked.

I have had to teach myself guitar (help me, dear Lord) in order to comply with stylistic directives for certain Masses.

I have received detailed instructions about how I should use my own singing voice at different liturgies: “more pop-oriented and airy at noon,” and so forth. I find this strangely invasive.

I have been angrily reprimanded for making minor seasonal changes.

I have been banned from praying all verses of any hymn, even the final hymn. When Father is done, I find a cadence, ritard the sucker and end it. Sometimes, this makes me literally grip my seat in frustration. Why am even I here If all I do is provide Jesus-themed background noise for the awkwardly quiet parts of mass?

Despite my liturgical knowledge and experience, I am basically never consulted about liturgical or musical decisions. I am simply told what style to implement, and many repertoire decisions are even dictated to me. Every liturgy at this large parish has different music and different Mass settings, despite my repeated warnings that maintaining so many separate programs is a poor use of my limited hours and creates unnecessary difficulty for volunteer singers.

I have been explicitly directed to replace more traditional settings with particular contemporary ones, even when, in my professional judgment, the choir involved was not remotely equipped to perform the newer repertoire well.

The deeper problem is that I am expected to project constant enthusiasm and “Spirit-filled joy” about a musical and liturgical direction that I sincerely believe contributes to the erosion of our sacred musical heritage and imports poor evangelical-style music into the Roman liturgy.

I find it increasingly dishonest to present myself as enthusiastic about something I believe is contrary to the spirit of the liturgy. I am being required to serve as an instrument of a charismatic reorientation that I strongly dislike. I deeply miss the traditional liturgical character of my former employment.

The difficulty is that this parish pays me exceptionally well—so well that leaving for almost any position would require a major reduction in income. I am not sure that I can justify that economically.

Would you accept substantially less money for a position whose work you could be more proud of? If leaving is not presently realistic, what would you do in the meantime? Set firmer boundaries? Quietly endure it? Wait for a change in leadership? Begin planning a gradual exit?

Sacred-music veterans: how would you navigate this?]]> which version of the psalms? https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23540/which-version-of-the-psalms Sun, 12 Jul 2026 19:43:51 +0000 DrJS 23540@/forum/discussions Which is the correct version of the psalms for Mass? I thought it was the Revised Grail Psalms. I had a parishioner angry with me this weekend because the version of the text I was using did not match what he got from the USCCB website. The USCCB website's readings don't match the Revised Grail Psalms. Are they the original Grail Psalms?
Is my parishioner just being a curmudgeon?

Thanks

]]> On my honour https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23533/on-my-honour Wed, 08 Jul 2026 19:10:28 +0000 Andrew_Malton 23533@/forum/discussions
On my honour I undertake never to use AI to generate content on this forum.

(Not anywhere else, to be honest: but in particular not here.)]]> Publishers announced for new Breviary! https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/22855/publishers-announced-for-new-breviary Thu, 09 Oct 2025 14:12:45 +0000 RMSawicki 22855@/forum/discussions
Word on Fire and Ascension Press have been officially selected to publish the new four-volume edition of The Liturgy of the Hours.

I must say, I had visions of several different firms getting "the call", but neither of these two were on my radar (although WOF's monthly paperback of the current edition probably should've been a tip-off!)

Deo gratias! The initial information is impressive, as well as the posted images!

Gaudete in Domino Semper!]]> Very detailed site: gregorianbooks.com https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/6096/very-detailed-site-gregorianbooks.com Sun, 01 Jan 2012 17:22:10 +0000 bgeorge77 6096@/forum/discussions
gregorianbooks.com

The guy put a lot of work into the page!

Too bad this post will probably sink like a stone.]]> External Solemnities in the Ordinary Form https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23512/external-solemnities-in-the-ordinary-form Mon, 29 Jun 2026 00:31:27 +0000 GerardH 23512@/forum/discussions
58. For the pastoral good of the faithful, it is permitted to observe on Sundays in Ordinary Time those celebrations that fall during the week and that are agreeable to the devotion of the faithful, provided the celebrations rank above that Sunday in the Table of Liturgical Days. The Mass of such celebrations may be used at all the celebrations of Mass at which the people are present.

How often does a patronal solemnity or anniversary of dedication land on a weekday and get all but forgotten? If possible, I think every parish and community should be taking advantage of this option to add greater solemnity to the celebrations most important and particular to them. We celebrated the Solemnity of Sts Peter & Paul (a solemnity in the universal calendar, but also our patronal solemnity) yesterday, Sunday 28 June, with an orchestral Mass.

This provision is equivalent to external solemnities in the EF, if slightly more restricted to "celebrations that fall during the week".

The corresponding rubric from the General Instruction on the Liturgy of the Hours is as follows (emphasis added):
245. Except on solemnities, Sundays of Advent, Lent and Eastertide, Ash Wednesday, during Holy Week and during the octave of Easter, and on 2 November, a votive Office may be celebrated either in whole or in part for a public or devotional reason: for example, at the time of a pilgrimage, on a local feast, or during the external solemnity of a saint.
]]> Chanted rosary? https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23522/chanted-rosary Wed, 01 Jul 2026 18:45:40 +0000 Geremia 23522@/forum/discussions Ave Maria in the sung rosary @3:57:19 here:
?

Is this the standard way to chant the rosary?]]> How do you record your choir? https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/22557/how-do-you-record-your-choir Thu, 12 Jun 2025 02:22:39 +0000 Abbysmum 22557@/forum/discussions
I am looking at getting a device for recording our choir during rehearsals (so we can listen to playback) and for recording parts for practicing at home. What do you guys use to record yourself and/or your choirs?

I just have a Samsung phone, which has terrible audio quality, so IDK if something like an iPhone would suffice. Or do you use other equipment? I don't have a lot to spend, so I need something that's a good bang for the buck.

Thanks! ]]> FT Music Director position in Keller, TX (DFW area) https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23536/ft-music-director-position-in-keller-tx-dfw-area Thu, 09 Jul 2026 05:56:17 +0000 Stella611 23536@/forum/discussions Here's the job posting:
https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/default/mdf/recruitment/recruitment.html?cid=f0b6ac33-839c-4997-842e-f808d293a2c0&ccId=19000101_000001&type=MP&lang=en_US&jobId=553648

Also, from the description on the parish website, the previous director was singing some antiphonal chant and chant propers, possibly, and had a good-sized choir:
https://seascc.org/worship/music-choir/

]]> Christmas Hymns https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23530/christmas-hymns Mon, 06 Jul 2026 22:09:51 +0000 JazFenn 23530@/forum/discussions
Away In A Manger

Night of Silence

Silent Night

O Little Town of Bethlehem

It Came Upon A Midnight Clear

The Snow Lay On The Ground

What Child Is This

In The Bleak Midwinter


]]> Mass Propers/Antiphons... where to find?? https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23531/mass-propersantiphons...-where-to-find Mon, 06 Jul 2026 22:32:12 +0000 JazFenn 23531@/forum/discussions "Virgo Dei Genitrix", translated https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23528/virgo-dei-genitrix-translated Sun, 05 Jul 2026 18:40:07 +0000 chonak 23528@/forum/discussions
source:
https://gregobase.selapa.net/chant.php?id=3320

image
]]> Colloquium Writeups https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23534/colloquium-writeups Wed, 08 Jul 2026 20:24:56 +0000 Charles_Weaver 23534@/forum/discussions Sacred Music.]]> Chanting the Divine Office/Liturgy of the Hours in English. How to? Instructional Resources? https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/7200/chanting-the-divine-officeliturgy-of-the-hours-in-english.-how-to-instructional-resources Sat, 28 Jul 2012 09:24:13 +0000 LauraYeager 7200@/forum/discussions
I am trying to learn how to properly chant the Divine Office in English. I am currently using ye "new-fangled" one volume Christian Prayer, published in 1972? A Catholic Retreat Center close to my home has begun doing Solemn Vespers and wants to chant them, and everyone who goes uses the Christian Prayer I just mentioned. They have asked me and my family to learn how to chant it, and then come and teach them.

We began by trying to learn from the little instructional section in the back of the prayer book, but decided that the psalm tones there did not sound very Gregorian (upon further investigation, we learned that the composers were going for a more "Hebrew/Israeli" sound in order to bring us more in touch with our Biblical Jewish roots), and they were not, shall I say, "anticipatable" melody lines. I found that the instructions in general were difficult to interpret or follow unless one is already well acquainted with chanting psalms and the Office! Ha!

So, my questions are:
1. Does anyone know of a book or resource which could instruct me about the basic rudiments of how to chant the Office?
Then instruction about the traditional way of properly chanting it.

2. Also, at the Colloquium I recently attended, we sang morning prayer and night prayer - and having the notation above the text was just splendid. I wondered if that was taken from Deacon Pat Cunningham's Gregorian English Divine Office.

3. What comments can you make regarding the Mundelein Psalter? It's format, ease of use, worthiness, etc.
I would love to switch to a Liturgy of the Hours book which has the notation in it - even then I could make copies from it for the other people who don't have the book themselves, but are there to sing vespers. Maybe this book is "the answer" I am seeking.

I think that's everything... for now... thank you! God bless you.]]> Epiphany Proclamation Chant Generator (EF) https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23513/epiphany-proclamation-chant-generator-ef Mon, 29 Jun 2026 00:40:07 +0000 sacristanus 23513@/forum/discussions
I've been making the Noveritis chant for my parish for some time now. A few days ago, I challenged myself to make an online generator. I thought that some of you would be interested in it, so I'm sharing the link below.

https://noveritis-generator-8e01fd.gitlab.io/

The link works best on a computer.

Pax]]> Polyphony with Mass XI https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23529/polyphony-with-mass-xi Mon, 06 Jul 2026 15:40:08 +0000 Benton 23529@/forum/discussions
I am looking for a polyphonic Hosanna in excelsis to tack on to the end of chanting Sanctus XI. We sing it in F# minor and I would like for the Hosanna to be energetic and in a triple meter. Anyone know of something short that could work? ]]> Fees, rates, for choral weddings https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23477/fees-rates-for-choral-weddings Wed, 10 Jun 2026 18:39:24 +0000 Jonathan_Culbreath 23477@/forum/discussions
I'm wondering what policies you have regarding fees and rates for weddings where a choir is present to sing, if you have a paid or semi-professional choir. For cantor weddings, at my parish, we pay a higher rate than our regular parish masses, at about $140/hour, which usually comes to something like $210 for a single wedding (at an hour and half, including "warm up" beforehand). But choral masses usually require more rehearsal time, and more personnel. I don't relish the idea of recruiting unpaid volunteers for wedding masses, unless they are family members or friends of the couple who are volunteering as a sort of wedding gift... When a couple asks the parish to provide a choir, I think it is only fair that all the singers be compensated. Even if they normally only volunteer for regular parish masses. But I'm open to your ideas on this. Such a thing could quickly get expensive, and perhaps that is just how it is. So I'm curious what your policies are, how you manage choral masses for weddings, all the ins and outs, etc.

Thank you!]]> Recommendations for post-communion serene/angelic motets for 3 voices https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23494/recommendations-for-post-communion-sereneangelic-motets-for-3-voices Thu, 18 Jun 2026 00:38:46 +0000 dtanguyen 23494@/forum/discussions Andre Caplet's O Salutaris from his Messe a Trois Voix and immediately fell in love with its calming and angelic nature. It was an easy to choice to sing it after communion on Corpus Christi.

Now we're searching for other similar motets that could be sung with 3 voices after communion. Emphasis on relatively low tempo, less intricate/"busy", calming pieces that would help encourage holy prayer and reflection. We already found Giammateo Asola's O vos omnes (which hopefully we can sing some time during Holy Week next year).

Wondering if anyone has any recommendations for other similar motets. Even better if written for SAT or SABaritone, but honestly we'd be motivated to make anything work. (After all, the O Salutaris piece mentioned above was technically SSA/TTB). We'd even consider SATB motets that could still be considered "sufficiently robust" even without the bass part (e.g., we're looking at Marco Ingegneri's O Bone Jesu as a potential example of this).

(We already have "The Parish Book of Motets for Three Voices" and "THE KWASNIEWSKI COLLECTION" (pdf) that's been posted on here.)

Thanks and God bless!]]> Magnificat chants https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23525/magnificat-chants Sat, 04 Jul 2026 12:04:19 +0000 Bri 23525@/forum/discussions
Thank you!]]> New three part mass setting started https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23400/new-three-part-mass-setting-started Sun, 10 May 2026 16:47:02 +0000 Xopheros 23400@/forum/discussions ready to join me in a recording (YT video with score underlaid).

The Christe might be a bit over the top with its descending quarter-chains (God’s Son coming to Earth), the many sharps (= crosses) accompanied by a brief passus duriusculus, and the painful tritone parallel at the end, but on the other hand this makes every listener notice the text interpretation.

It is in my favorite international language, but it should be straightforward to make an alternative version with the Greek text "Kyrie/Christe eleison" for those who only sing Latin masses. OTOH, those who only sing in Latin/Greek presumably do not like this kind of "contemporary slop", so it is presumably not worth the trouble.

If someone nevertheless would like to have a Greek version, please let me know.]]> beata viscera https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23492/beata-viscera Wed, 17 Jun 2026 01:48:39 +0000 monasteryliturgist 23492@/forum/discussions Old-Roman Chant Discussion Group https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23527/old-roman-chant-discussion-group Sat, 04 Jul 2026 18:23:12 +0000 NoahLovins 23527@/forum/discussions
https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/cantilena-romana

Hope to see you there!
NJL]]> Tolkien on choir rehearsal https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23526/tolkien-on-choir-rehearsal Sat, 04 Jul 2026 16:50:01 +0000 probe 23526@/forum/discussions very amateur choir rehearsal.
http://www.ldysinger.com/@texts2/1938_jrr_tolkien/03_creation-sill.htm]]> HYMN OF THE MONTH: Nearer, My God, To Thee (The Catholic Verses) https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/23524/hymn-of-the-month-nearer-my-god-to-thee-the-catholic-verses Fri, 03 Jul 2026 20:36:09 +0000 Don9of11 23524@/forum/discussions
For nearly seventy years, American Catholic hymnals replaced Sarah Adams' famous text with a unique Sacred Heart adaptation that reshaped the hymn into a powerful prayer of devotion and reparation.

Join me this month as we uncover this forgotten chapter of Catholic hymnody and explore how one of Christianity's most beloved melodies became a vehicle for catechesis through melody and Eucharistic faith.

Please visit Mother of Mercy Catholic Hymns

https://www.motherofmercycatholichymns.com/catholic-nearer-my-god-to-thee/
]]>