https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/categories/general-discussion-music/p281/feed.rss Mon, 25 May 26 19:36:13 +0000 General Music Discussion - MusicaSacra Church Music Forum en-CA https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/200/diocesan-clergy-convocation-liturgy-report-day-one Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:56:46 +0000 Charles in CenCA 200@/forum/discussions Basically, for the diocesan convocation of priests/deacons I assembled an ad hoc schola of men (5) and all three liturgies more or less look like this:
Introit antiphons are Propers of each specific day. Tomorrow's will be chanted in Spanish, both antiphon and psalm versicles.
Ordinaries used: Today: Jubilate Deo; Wednesday: De Angelis; Thursday: Orbis Factor
Proper Psalms: Psalm tones, today/Thursday in English; Weds.-Spanish.
Offertory antiphon: all three days- "Dextera Domine" from last Sunday.
Communio antiphon: all three days- "Venite post me" from last Sunday. (The rationale being that participation might increase for these two via successive use.)
Dismissal: Salve Regina (Tues/Weds/Thus) and Jesu Dulcis Memoria added Thursday closing.

General participation was very good on all but the offertory and communion antiphons, to be expected.

Informal conversations indicated that the "appreciation" factor varied. Some of our high profile boomer guys expressed apathy, claiming that we've crossed the linguistic Rubicon and they're not going back. I did receive a greater number of appreciative compliments from the bishop, vicar general and many priests, some of which commented expressly positive thanks for using Latin in both Ordinaries and Propers.
All of the guys I've known for 20 years "get" why I've chosen to go the "all Roman" route; the writing's on the wall and we're showing it doesn't take a big gun parish and budget to effect some of these needed, mandated decisions to re-orient the liturgy of any given parish to what Andrew (from RPInet Board/London) has called the "native culture" for years. Thanks, Andrew, very much.
I must say that I've had some serious stress over all this over the last couple of weeks. But all that was ameliorated as soon as we chanted the first introit.
I don't see how most of our collared guys can remain so entrenched after they, themselves, join in the communion of the chant. But, out here, in a very "Anaheim RE mode" diocese, this is a hopeful first step in turning the heads of the primary liturgists in all of our parishes.
Pray for us for Weds./Thus.
Thanks,
Charles]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/181/characteristics-of-music-that-is-good-for-congregations Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:06:31 +0000 Felipe Gasper 181@/forum/discussions
I am starting a list of general criteria that make music conducive to congregational singing. At one end of the spectrum is, say, the Penderecki Magnificat, probably one of the hardest pieces of vocal music yet written. At the other end would be the two-note “Amen”.

In between these two extremes, what qualities make for music that congregations can learn and sing easily?]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/206/bfw-ash-wednesday-communion-psalm Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:24:23 +0000 David Andrew 206@/forum/discussions
I don't have it in front of me, but I seem to remember that beginning with verse 5, the pointings don't line up with the chant formula, and it happens on several verses after that. There seem to be too many syllables for the number of pitches provided for the termination.

Does anyone know about this, or am I reading the pointings wrong?]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/163/rcia-first-scrutiny-what-music-do-you-use Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:50:56 +0000 Jan 163@/forum/discussions propers & ordinary (Latin) with a Novus Ordo English language Mass. Our RCIA director has traditionally sung music from
Today's Missal (ugh). What to do? Any suggestions?]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/170/music-for-special-occasions Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:07:08 +0000 priorstf 170@/forum/discussions Jesu Rex Admirabilis at Communion. (Thank you, Jeffrey, for posting that awesome book of trios!)

As a prelude to the Mass I arranged a simplified chant version of Ecce Sacerdos Magnus. It was somewhat tongue in cheek. The priest is indeed a great priest. But he was concelebrating with 5 other priests and the bishop was in attendance as well, so we figured they could all duke it out over who was the Magnus-est of them all! And that psalm itself comes from the Liturgy of the Hours for celebrations of Confessors of Bishops, so it fit our priest's current job description but also could be valid for several of the others in attendance. Lastly, the tone I used is that of the Hosanna, Filio David from Palm Sunday where we remember Christ's triumphant entry. It was simple enough for the schola to sing it very well. And it just seemed fitting to celebrate the return of a very beloved priest.

Even at levels WAY beneath the dignified and scholarly discussions we often have around here, Gregorian Chant is an awesome tool.

We also sang (in English) an old hymn, Soul of My Saviour (aka Anima Christi). Original copyright was in 1920. It has some harmonies that remind me of Civil War vintage folk tunes and was really rich and beautiful. I would dare say that we don't have to hearken back too many centuries to start identifying music that is appropriate for the Catholic Liturgy.

I wonder if we could select one piece per century to set forth as the best of that era. What a fascinating view of Church history it might be.]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/160/music-for-diocesesan-clergy-convocation-masses Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:45:27 +0000 Charles in CenCA 160@/forum/discussions In speaking with the priest who "mans" the Office of Worship, I inquired whether he would personally endorse a strictly "Roman Rite" approach to these three Masses; namely the use of Proper antiphons, the Gradual, and chanted settings of the Ordinary, whether in English or Latin. Also I suggested the possibility of all three Masses being sung unaccompanied. The OF, of course, will be employed.
So, my initial thoughts are that at two of the Masses all musical elements would be sung in English, and at the third either all in Latin or a discreet blend of English and Latin chants, ie. Most Propers in English (except maybe the Communio) and the Ordinary in Latin.
Now where I need some advice is from what English source would you suggest I appropriate the Propers? BFW, the Anglican Gradual, Psallite (blech!) or....? I'm going to also consult the chant booklet from the 07 DC colloquium.
I see this task, beyond the obvious and profound worship aspect, as being an opportunity to immerse our bishop, priests and deacons within the fountain of our native waters, that which is common (in the greater sense) to all Catholics. And then I hope that experience my lead some of them to personal calls to conversion of their own entrenched modalities.
Any advice?
Thanks,
Charles]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/131/how-much-music-is-too-much-music Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:02:44 +0000 dad29 131@/forum/discussions
(This is an Extraordinary Rite group.)

My recollection was that the organist should NOT be playing music to 'fill all the blanks' during the Mass--that silence is appropriate now and again, especially during the Canon/Consecration.

Any thoughts? Documentation for those thoughts?]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/129/sharing-sunday-music-programs-2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:37:09 +0000 davesa10r 129@/forum/discussions
Due to circumstances beyond our control, we ended up having to make an choice for this past weekend (Jan 5-6). We were told that we needed to severely limit, or eliminate, our use of Latin when not singing at the 9:30 am Mass. Of course, we were scheduled for the Saturday anticipatory Mass, and we had also planned to sing a number of Latin motets (Victoria - O Magnum Mysterium, Byrd - Reges tharsis, and so forth) as well as the Communio from the Missale Romanum. This was sprung
on us at almost the last minute, and it was even suggested that we not sing at all. Fortunately, we were able to get together and come up with an alternate list of music (it's nice to have a large repertoire to draw from in an emergency) that fit the bill nicely (we were able to retain the chanted Sanctus and Agnus Dei, since they were well-known).

Prelude: Morning Star, O Cheering Sight (Hagen - a Moravian Christmas hymn), and Saw You Never (Harold Friedell - from Eight Orisons)
Entrance: As with gladness, men of old (DIX) - quoted in the homily, BTW
Psalm - Chabanel
Offertory - The Glory of the Father (Hovland)
Communion: Hymn - What Star Is This and Antiphon: We have seen his star (from By Flowing Waters)
Exit: We Three Kings]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/55/what-is-beautiful-music Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:36:58 +0000 Gavin 55@/forum/discussions
I can look at music (let's use chant and Be Not Afraid for examples, they are relevant) and decide its merits quantitatively. I can decide that "Be Not Afraid" is too rhythmically complex for a congregation and thus know not to use it. I know chant is the music of the Roman Rite, so I know it is more suitable than "Be Not Afraid". I can judge that the text is often musically irrelevant, while chant is always relevant. I can point to its irregular harmonic rhythm to say it is not the best music for church, as opposed to a solid hymn. I can say that it's not suitable for funeral use since its purpose is more for emotionalism than as a part of the Mass.

However, I can't point to BNA and say it's objectively not beautiful. Where could I find support for something like that in the music or text? What qualities could I look at to find objective beauty? Now I can tell you I don't think it's beautiful. And I think that because of the irregular harmonic rhythms, slow tempo, and inconsistent text. But that's my own private judgment. It may be informed by scholarly opinion, but ultimately I judged which qualities I find beautiful. There are many well-trained musicians who would judge BNA as beautiful, not to mention the many old ladies who do. It certainly is overwhelmingly evidenced that beauty is subjective.

(I'll add the unnecessary analogy of beer. I love craft-brewed beer because it has stronger hop and malt content, is often carefully made, and comes in wide varieties made from carefully designed recipes. And yet I can't tell someone who drinks Miller or Budweiser that his beer is inferior because we don't agree on what constitutes superior beer. And I can't even say mine tastes better because this person may reject my Rogue beer for their tin can. So while I, by any logical estimation, have the better beer, I can't prove it objectively to the Bud swiller.)

And if you can prove some music is objectively beautiful, why is the non-beautiful music still being used? If someone requests BNA at a funeral, why not say, "that piece is not objectively beautiful because of A, B, and C."? Or when your pastor tells you to knock off the chant at Mass, can't you say, "but chant is beautiful. See? Look at that quilisma, beauty!"? If there is some objective standard of determining musical (or artistic) beauty, I'm not aware of it. And frankly if you can't tell me how to judge it, I'm not inclined to believe in musical beauty. As with the beer, I can point to the hops and malts and Bavarian yeast but Joe Sixpack will just respond "well yeah, and those things taste bad!" I have no problem telling a funeral family that "Amazing Grace" isn't the best song for a funeral because it may offend some. I know to never play "Gentle Woman" at Mass because it has one chord in it, and I can say so. But I have no idea how I as a musician am supposed to argue, from a Christian standpoint no less, that a song is not beautiful.

So those of you that believe in objective beauty, fill me in. Give me your apologetic for why one piece of music can be said to be beautiful and another cannot.]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/35/national-association-of-pastoral-musicians-magazine-archives Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:54:17 +0000 Aristotle Esguerra 35@/forum/discussions Pastoral Music (1976-2005) have been posted in PDF format on the NPM site, for those interested in the research.]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/98/song-is-the-expression-of-a-lover Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:11:33 +0000 Paul F. Ford 98@/forum/discussions
"Cantare amantis est" (Song is the expression of a lover), says St. Augustine (Serm. 336; P. L. 38, 1472).]]>