https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/categories/general-discussion-music/p280/feed.rss Wed, 29 Apr 26 21:45:18 +0000 General Music Discussion - MusicaSacra Church Music Forum en-CA https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/129/sharing-sunday-music-programs-2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:37:09 +0000 davesa10r 129@/forum/discussions
Due to circumstances beyond our control, we ended up having to make an choice for this past weekend (Jan 5-6). We were told that we needed to severely limit, or eliminate, our use of Latin when not singing at the 9:30 am Mass. Of course, we were scheduled for the Saturday anticipatory Mass, and we had also planned to sing a number of Latin motets (Victoria - O Magnum Mysterium, Byrd - Reges tharsis, and so forth) as well as the Communio from the Missale Romanum. This was sprung
on us at almost the last minute, and it was even suggested that we not sing at all. Fortunately, we were able to get together and come up with an alternate list of music (it's nice to have a large repertoire to draw from in an emergency) that fit the bill nicely (we were able to retain the chanted Sanctus and Agnus Dei, since they were well-known).

Prelude: Morning Star, O Cheering Sight (Hagen - a Moravian Christmas hymn), and Saw You Never (Harold Friedell - from Eight Orisons)
Entrance: As with gladness, men of old (DIX) - quoted in the homily, BTW
Psalm - Chabanel
Offertory - The Glory of the Father (Hovland)
Communion: Hymn - What Star Is This and Antiphon: We have seen his star (from By Flowing Waters)
Exit: We Three Kings]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/55/what-is-beautiful-music Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:36:58 +0000 Gavin 55@/forum/discussions
I can look at music (let's use chant and Be Not Afraid for examples, they are relevant) and decide its merits quantitatively. I can decide that "Be Not Afraid" is too rhythmically complex for a congregation and thus know not to use it. I know chant is the music of the Roman Rite, so I know it is more suitable than "Be Not Afraid". I can judge that the text is often musically irrelevant, while chant is always relevant. I can point to its irregular harmonic rhythm to say it is not the best music for church, as opposed to a solid hymn. I can say that it's not suitable for funeral use since its purpose is more for emotionalism than as a part of the Mass.

However, I can't point to BNA and say it's objectively not beautiful. Where could I find support for something like that in the music or text? What qualities could I look at to find objective beauty? Now I can tell you I don't think it's beautiful. And I think that because of the irregular harmonic rhythms, slow tempo, and inconsistent text. But that's my own private judgment. It may be informed by scholarly opinion, but ultimately I judged which qualities I find beautiful. There are many well-trained musicians who would judge BNA as beautiful, not to mention the many old ladies who do. It certainly is overwhelmingly evidenced that beauty is subjective.

(I'll add the unnecessary analogy of beer. I love craft-brewed beer because it has stronger hop and malt content, is often carefully made, and comes in wide varieties made from carefully designed recipes. And yet I can't tell someone who drinks Miller or Budweiser that his beer is inferior because we don't agree on what constitutes superior beer. And I can't even say mine tastes better because this person may reject my Rogue beer for their tin can. So while I, by any logical estimation, have the better beer, I can't prove it objectively to the Bud swiller.)

And if you can prove some music is objectively beautiful, why is the non-beautiful music still being used? If someone requests BNA at a funeral, why not say, "that piece is not objectively beautiful because of A, B, and C."? Or when your pastor tells you to knock off the chant at Mass, can't you say, "but chant is beautiful. See? Look at that quilisma, beauty!"? If there is some objective standard of determining musical (or artistic) beauty, I'm not aware of it. And frankly if you can't tell me how to judge it, I'm not inclined to believe in musical beauty. As with the beer, I can point to the hops and malts and Bavarian yeast but Joe Sixpack will just respond "well yeah, and those things taste bad!" I have no problem telling a funeral family that "Amazing Grace" isn't the best song for a funeral because it may offend some. I know to never play "Gentle Woman" at Mass because it has one chord in it, and I can say so. But I have no idea how I as a musician am supposed to argue, from a Christian standpoint no less, that a song is not beautiful.

So those of you that believe in objective beauty, fill me in. Give me your apologetic for why one piece of music can be said to be beautiful and another cannot.]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/35/national-association-of-pastoral-musicians-magazine-archives Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:54:17 +0000 Aristotle Esguerra 35@/forum/discussions Pastoral Music (1976-2005) have been posted in PDF format on the NPM site, for those interested in the research.]]> https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/98/song-is-the-expression-of-a-lover Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:11:33 +0000 Paul F. Ford 98@/forum/discussions
"Cantare amantis est" (Song is the expression of a lover), says St. Augustine (Serm. 336; P. L. 38, 1472).]]>