Gloria in wedding Mass
  • Allan DAllan D
    Posts: 43
    I'll be playing the organ for a wedding this Saturday, April 30. The bride and groom haven't requested that a Gloria be sung, and I've never played a Gloria in a wedding Mass before, but I'm wondering if it might be required in this case since it falls in the octave of Easter. Our priest wasn't sure. Does anyone know, or can you tell me where I could look it up?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    GIRM 53 says about the Gloria: "It is sung or said on Sundays outside the Seasons of Advent and Lent, on solemnities and feasts, and at special celebrations of a more solemn character."

    So if one wants to celebrate a wedding as a "special celebration of a more solemn character", a Gloria would be just fine.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    The General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar states: "24. The first eight days of the Easter season make up the octave of Easter and are celebrated as solemnities of the Lord."
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    And a wedding Mass, on a weekday during Easter Octave, must have all the readings of the day, NOT of the nuptial choices - just like at a Confirmation on a Sunday, the Sunday takes precedence over the Ritual Mass Readings.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    Yes, this saturday the Mass must be that of the saturday within the Octave of Easter. Hence, with Gloria.

    But even if it were not, the Gloria should be sung at Nuptial Masses. This is what the last (2002) typical edition of the Missale Romanum says. I've made some comments on this and on the ommission of the Kyrie in another thread (originally on Extraordinary Form Nuptial Masses, but the discussion wandered away from the original point).
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    What the 2002 Missale Romanum says:

    Whenever the Matrimony is celebrated within the Mass, this ritual Mass is said (...). But should it take place on a day listed under numbers 1 to 4 of the table of liturgical days, the Mass of the day is said instead, retaining the nuptial blessing and, if this is seen fit, the proper final blessing.

    The said table says:

    1. Easter Triduum of the Lord's Passion and Ressurrection.
    2. The Birth of Our Lord, Epiphany, Ascension and Pentecost.
    Advent, Lent and Easter Sundays.
    Ash Wednesday.
    Ferial days of the Holy Week, from Monday to Thursday.
    Days within the Octave of Easter.
    3. (...)

    The Missal also says, between the Introit and the Collect of all three Nuptial Masses:

    The penitential act is ommitted. The Gloria is said.

    [My translations; I apologise for mistakes and errors.]
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Yes, sing the gloria. A Day within the octave of easter takes precidence over the rubrics of a nuptial Mass.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    revisiting this link.

    Is par. 53 of the GIRM the only stipulation for SINGING a Gloria at a wedding?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I believe it's also found in the missal on the rite of marriage page. I can check later if you want, if no one else has yet.
  • Joseph MendesJoseph Mendes
    Posts: 99
    From the Roman Missal:

    The Penitential Act is omitted. The Gloria in excelsis (Glory to God in the highest) is said.
  • btodorovich
    Posts: 32
    Question: I have a wedding on Saturday that is not a full Mass, just a liturgy of the word and vows. Since the Rite of Marriage has not been revised (to my knowledge), would a Gloria be required?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    well, SAID is definitely not SUNG.
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    We were given orders by our diocese via memo, to start implementing the Gloria into the wedding rite, as apparently in the new RM Girm, it is required. I haven't seen the entry myself, just the memo that was citing it. Our pastor has started requiring that it be sung.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Whatever is said may be sung, according to GIRM 38.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    btodorovich: I suppose you could sing it at a wedding outside of Mass, but I have been asking myself the question, "When is the Gloria ever sung outside of the eucharistic liturgy?" Unless it's a concert, never, to my knowledge. So, we're doing it for Masses, but not for weddings outside the context of Mass. It just seems to make more sense to me until the USCCB et al. decide otherwise.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    From the Roman Missal, 3rd edition:

    GIRM
    The Manner of Pronouncing the Different Texts

    38. I n texts that are to be pronounced in a loud and clear voice, whether by the Priest or the Deacon, or by a reader, or by everyone, the voice should correspond to the genre of the text itself, that is, depending upon whether it is a reading, a prayer, an explanatory comment, an acclamation, or a sung text; it should also be suited to the form of celebration and to the solemnity of the gathering. Consideration should also
    be given to the characteristics of different languages and of the culture of different peoples.

    Therefore, in the rubrics and in the norms that follow, words such as “say” and “proclaim” are to be understood either of singing or of reciting, with due regard for the principles stated here above.


    RITUAL MASSES
                V. FOR THE CELEBRATION OF MARRIAGE
        Whenever Marriage is celebrated during Mass, this Ritual Mass is used, with the color white or a festive color.
        However, on those days listed in nos. 1-4 of the Table of Liturgical Days, the Mass of the day is used, retaining the Nuptial Blessing in the Mass and, if appropriate, the proper formula for the final blessing.
        If, however, during Christmas Time and Ordinary Time, the parish community participates in a Sunday Mass during which Marriage is celebrated, the Mass of the Sunday is used.
        Although complete Mass formularies are given here for the sake of convenience, all texts, especially the prayers and the Nuptial Blessing, may be exchanged, if appropriate, with others.

                    A
    Entrance Antiphon Cf. Ps 20 (19): 3, 5
        May the Lord send you help from the holy place
        and give you support from Sion.
        May he grant you your hearts’ desire
        and fulfill every one of your designs (E.T. alleluia).

    The Penitential Act is omitted. The Gloria in excelsis (Glory to God in the highest) is said.

    In other words, the Gloria is sung or recited.
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    I was at a funeral where a Requiem Mass was not allowed for one reason or another, so we did the propers of the week (Extraordinary Form.)

    If within the Octave of Easter, &c., are the Nuptial Mass propers even allowed? I'm curious about both Extraordinary and Ordinary Forms.

    (Judging by the response immediately above mine, it appears the answer is Big Fat No, but I'm completely inexpert at reading the GIRM.)
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,939
    EAF

    For the OF, consult the table of precedence and the norms for the calendar:

    http://www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Calendar/Info/GNLY.pdf

    The days of the Octave of Easter are all solemnities, so the propers for those days trump all else.
  • WiesOrganista
    Posts: 128
    Interesting. I also was asked (by the celebrant) to do the Gloria at a wedding Mass a few weeks ago, being informed that the new Missal requires it. The priest was newly ordained (Archdiocese of Detroit) and it was his first wedding - the poor thing... LOL

    As with every other "hymn" at a wedding, it was a solo (ie nobody sings) - or in this case a duet between myself and the soloist.

    I chose Mass VIII, in Latin, btw., since the parish does it every week.
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    Most weddings are a specticle, I have only had a few occasions where the people sang a hymn, chant, or song. Where I have noticed it occur is when the couple really want to sing, and I have had that happen. I had a couple that wanted Amazing Grace, of all hymns. Everyone sang.

    The only other occasions have been at Spanish Weddings with a couple recently out of RCIA.... most in attendance were regular Sunday folks, and enjoy singing.
  • WiesOrganista
    Posts: 128
    I have noticed they will always sing the Agnus Dei from Mass XVIII if nothing else. I do it a cappella.

    I recently attended my 94 oear old step-grandfather's funeral, all of whose children but 1 (and their families) are fallen away Catholics since Vatican II. All 4 boys had graduated from Catholic HS. The music was the usual junk, but It nearly brought tears to my eyes as all 5 of them, and the rest of the people, belted out the Agnus Dei, in Latin, for the first time since the 1960's.

    Just an observation....
    Thanked by 1Jahaza
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 516
    Our pastor decided that--as a rule--we would omit the Gloria from all weddings (other than those that happen during a regularly scheduled Sunday Mass), and that he would answer for that decision at the pearly gates.

    We recently had a very prominent archbishop (current, not retired) visit to preside at a wedding--before the pastor made the above-mentioned decision--and he skipped right over it.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Just a brief rubrical question here concerning weddings...

    I'll be doing a wedding soon, and I'll be meeting with the couple soon. In looking though the missal and other books, I found this question that needs to be answered.

    The non-troped kyrie is thought of as after the penitential act by the GIRM. In a wedding, would/could the kyrie be sung before the gloria? Here's some appropriate spots from the GIRM. I would wager that it could be, but maybe I'm not seeing something...In fact, it seems that strictly speaking, it must be said, if you read GIRM no. 52 in that way, since it was not included in the (non-existent) penitential act. Thoughts?

    GIRM 46. The rites that precede the Liturgy of the Word, namely, the entrance, the greeting, the penitential act, the Kyrie, the Gloria in excelsis (Glory to God in the highest) and collect, have the character of a beginning, an introduction, and a preparation.

    GIRM 52. After the penitential act, the Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy), is always begun, unless it has already been part of the penitential act.

    [From the Missal] The Penitential Act is omitted. The Gloria in excelsis (Glory to God in the highest) is said.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Ben, the question hasn't been settled. I think there are good arguments made for both sides. Personally, I think the non-troped Kyrie could be sung.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    In which book should I be looking to find these indications relating to weddings? "Ritual, Votive, Commons"? I looked through the Roman Missal this evening and couldn't find it, but could check "Ritual, Votive, Commons" when I get to work tomorrow...
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Hi Ryan (edit: ryan is irishtenor),

    It would be in the ritual mass section. On my copy of the missal, it's page 1177. It may not be the same in yours, but that should get you close.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 890
    The nuptial Mass is in the Missal under ritual Masses. My read is that the Gloria is always sung at a nuptial Mass but it would not be sung for the rite of Marriage outside of Mass. It does seem awkward however. We have a wedding almost every weekend. It would seem that since the penitential act is omitted the the Gloria should be sung imediately after the sign of cross and formal greeting. However most priests I know give an extended informal greeting and then procede directly into the collect forgetting the gloria (despite all the reminders and sticky notes). Either way it feels awkward singing a gloria without a penitential act. Of course it also feels awkward singing the gloria as a solo.
  • Chris HebardChris Hebard
    Posts: 124
    I agree with Ben that the penitential act is omitted, but the Kyrie and Gloria are used. See also a more general thread on ritual Masses.

    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/7230/gloria-and-creed-in-ritual-masses#Item_14
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    Thanks, Ben! I was also able to find the section online at this (ridiculously long) URL:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=IwV6-e0juMEC&pg=PA1177&lpg=PA1177&dq=V.+FOR+THE+CELEBRATION+OF+MARRIAGE+++++Whenever+Marriage+is+celebrated+during+Mass,+this+Ritual+Mass+is+used,+with+the+color+white+or+a+festive+color.&source=bl&ots=dGZYTdJEd8&sig=fq87XUvNnJkVCjF-jX4lbmFyB_I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0aeQUOz-HsH5ygGR1IHgDg&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    I thought we had been through all this earlier in this thread. Oh, well.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    I read your comments, Charles. I could not find them in my copy of the Roman Missal, nor could I then show it to anyone in an authoritative book. Ben helped me locate what you had originally found.

    I was definitely not doubting the accuracy of your comment--just hoping to use it to persuade others!
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