So... Advent IV falls on Christmas Eve Day this year
  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 800
    What is being done at your parishes? Is it lawful to receive communion for both Advent IV and Christmas Eve Masses if that's necessary?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    The law as I understand it says that it is permitted to go to Communion a maximum of twice per calendar day. The second time must be within a Mass.
    Thanked by 3Casavant Organist rarty Vilyanor
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,942
    Correct. And that's different than the more common question one finds in this calendrical context (about meeting preceptual obligations: the bottom line is that Sunday evening is not a two-for-one special).
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    It will be a very busy weekend for all of us, I'm sure.

    Our weekly EF Mass is 5:30pm on Sunday. So this year we simply won't have a Latin Mass for Advent IV. That means that our TLM folks will need to satisfy their Sunday obligation at an English Mass - unless the Pastor decides to add a Latin Mass to the Saturday evening Mass. That is a possibility, but that much more work.

    The calendar also puts my birthday, January 7th, on the Sunday after New Years. I've been wanting to visit London (and other parts of the UK) during the winter for some time now. I might decide to push for this coming winter, asking our music director to come back from his Christmas time off for the New Year's weekend so I can spend two weeks (and three weekends!) abroad.
    Thanked by 1Vilyanor
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,939
    One disadvantage to the 1960 rubrics, and I have yet to verify if this was always the case, is that the Vigil of Christmas displaces Advent IV.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    @MatthewRoth

    From the LMS ordo...

    SUN 24
    VIGIL of the NATIVITY of OLJC I Cl V
    No Gl Alleluia Verse Cr Pr of Holy Trinity
    Special Ordering of Office – see Breviary
    At Lauds I Scheme I Vespers of following
    At Compline of Sunday Final Ant of BVM Alma Redemptoris with V Post partum for the rest of the year.

    For those of us that use the Traditional Rite... (the Below is from a 1934 day hours book)
    Advent IV, is a Greater Sunday of the Second Class (with Advent II & III and the 3 Sunday of Septuagesima.

    Christmas Eve, is a Privileged Vigil of the First Class (with the Vigil of Pentecost) ... which in occurrence do not give place to any feast.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    @Steve Collins

    TLM folks need to attend Mass on Sunday*, the Propers used are irrelevant. A Mass at 5.30 pm should use the Propers of the Vigil of Christmas, although I have heard of some places anticipating the Midnight Mass as early as 6pm...

    * O.K. the new rules say we can attend Mass anytime from late afternoon on a Saturday, and call it our Sunday Mass.
    Thanked by 1Steve Collins
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,939
    Well, in this country the Novus Ordo vigil of Christmas is around that time, so the Masses would conflict.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    The Novus Ordo Vigil Mass should be moved to the school-hall-gymnasium-space so all the festive antics can most easily be accomodated.
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    One more thing about receiving Communion a possible second time in the day: for canonical purposes, the day begins at midnight, regardless of what liturgical observance is being celebrated.

    So if one of the faithful receives the sacrament at a Sunday morning Mass on 12/24, and at a Christmas Vigil Mass (say, at 5 pm), then there is no obstacle to receiving it again after midnight.
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 429
    As I understand it, there are two obligations to fulfill - one being the Sunday obligation (IV Advent) and the second being the Holy Day of Obligation (Christmas). I'm not sure how this works in the TLM calendar, but in the calendar for the Ordinary Form it should be pretty clear that all Masses on Saturday evening and Sunday morning (at least) are for Advent IV. What I'm not so clear about is how the Vigil Mass of Christmas is to be used. As someone said above, there can be no two-for-one deals; one must fulfill two separate obligations, which means assisting at a Mass for Advent IV and a second for Christmas.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,939
    This question makes the problem more evident. The Vigil is no longer a penitential vigil said the day before, but it is in practice the first Mass of Christmas.

    Also, having come back from circumstances which, except for a day like Christmas, we only received once (and not at all on Good Friday), I would encourage church musicians to have a strobner and more traditional eucharistic discipline. It makes Communion at Midnight Mass more fitting and, I would argue, more fruitful, if you do not receive at the evening Mass. The canons are more permissive, but that is to cover the broad circumstances of ecclesiastical life and is by no means an endorsement of receiving twice in one day.
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    I wonder if the bishops will make some allowances for this. A bishop can determine for his particular diocese that exceptions can be made.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    Couple of points:
    For the absence of doubt, from the Rubricæ Generalis of the 1962 Missale Romanum:
    30. a) vigilia Nativitatis Domini quæ, in occurrentia, locum tenet dominicæ IV Adventus, de qua, proinde, nulla fit commemoratio; [vigil of Christmas, which in occurrence takes the place of IV Sunday of Advent, hence the Sunday is not commemorated;]

    Regarding consecutive holy days of obligation, the “two-for-one” Mass possibility was addressed in the February 2017 Newsletter published by the USCCB’s Committee on Divine Worship. Despite a heroic effort to defend the proposition that one Mass cannot fulfill obligations on two different days, their conclusion was
    Nevertheless, a majority of authors maintains that the Church’s intention in extending the possibility of meeting Mass obligations through vigil Masses, while intended to make it easier to fulfill obligations, was never envisioned as a legal loophole, and, hence, separate obligations remain. Aside from canonical requirements, it would be hoped, of course, that Catholics foster a love for the Sacred Liturgy and hold a desire to celebrate the holy days as fully as is reasonable possible.
    Based on this weak conclusion, seems unlikely one commits a mortal sin by attending a vigil mass on December 24 to fulfill the two mass obligations.
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    Well...I will have 9 Masses in the 48 hour period from noon on Dec. 23rd to noon on Dec. 25th. Somebody please commiserate with me.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW bonniebede
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    I think folks on this forum sometimes worry too much about problems that don't turn out to be problems. Then we get, "well, under Pius IX, they stood on their heads and turned in a semi-circle." Guys, today's realities are enough without all the angst. LOL
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    As musicians figure out that Christmas is a Monday and the implications of that, I imagine them looking like this

    image

    And asking themselves why they're in this profession.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,942
    It happens every 6-5-6-11 years (well, except in 28-year cycles including a year ending in 00 that is not divisible by 400); rinse and repeat.
    Thanked by 2canadash CHGiffen
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,939
    Hooray, the USCCB got it right this time.

    I mean, skipping a Mass of precept is a mortal sin. This isn’t terribly hard, even if, yes, it will be a miserable 72 hours for clergy, musicians, servers, and the faithful who assist with flowers, trees, etc.

    Even people who travel long distances to the TLM will figure something out in order to go to two Masses. If it is hard, is it not for the priest to give counsel to his faithful who might live in, say, a remote area regarding their obligation for Christmas day?
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    Rogue63, I will commiserate with you as my parish will have 14 Masses in that period. 3 in the old church, and 11 in the new.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933

    And asking themselves why they're in this profession.


    Gotta be because of the money, fame, glamour and groupies...;-)

    What is this "mortal sin" of which you speak? ;-)
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    What is this "mortal sin" of which you speak? ;-)
    Mortal sin makes God angry.
    Venial sin makes God nervous.
    --From a story reported to Bishop Sheen which he shared on a broadcast.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Remember there is a difference between
    obligation to attend Mass and
    obligation to receive the Eucharist.
    Thanked by 1Steve Collins
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    We Byzantines don't split Latin hairs. LOL
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