With his back to us

Militaristic movements

Back to us

Here's the good quote from the piece:

There were about 150 people in attendance. I would say that perhaps ten people were over 65. The rest were fairly young; people in their 30's, 40's and 50's.

Can we say that about your average parish?

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If an observer thinks of strict, ritualistic movements as "militaristic", that's because other sectors of our culture have given up that type of highly formal and visually impressive ceremonial. The closest things most Americans ever see along that line are marching-band formations. College graduations don't show much precision.

And also I suspect that Catholics in America have never really been a very orderly people: first, we're Americans. Moreover, a lot of us come from downtrodden folks in the old country, whereas formal public ceremonies are the work of a confident, secure class of people. And we have the modern impulse to hurry: the result is general disorder whenever the faithful are asked to form a procession.

So if anyone wants to revive the beauty of ceremonial in the Catholic Church, they're going to have to take lessons from the folks who have nurtured it: traditionalists and Anglicans.

Sounds kinda like an awkward first date with a great person. Why not give it another try, Jerry. This time in its normative, sung form.

There are lots of folks who love the EF the first time. There are other folks (maybe a bigger group) who start liking it once they get the hang of how to participate, say 3-10 times later. There are other folks who will never like it.

But...
If someone only gives it one chance, that's probably not enough to say they never want to go again. It's like reading one out of ten chapters in a book and giving a review.

Why not go to St. John Cantius? Isn't that near him?

:)

Jerry's a great guy and people oughta cut him some slack. If you have something constructive to suggest, his blog has a comment section.

His comment about the servers struck me. I've worked in a number of churches in which the servers have a complete disregard for what they are doing. It looks like they think it's a game, or a chore. They rock back and forth on their heels, talk to each other during Mass, blow out the candles, have a tendency to drop things, use the wrong items, prop their feet on kneelers, etc. Why anyone would complain (or at the least, think it odd) that servers actually are know what they are doing and do it WELL is a distraction is beyond me.

I can understand a person who is unused to the EF to be a little lost at first, to think Ad Orientem is impersonal, to wonder why nobody says anything aloud, and so on. But the servers? You'd think that would be one point that sticks out as a serious improvement over so many churches elsewhere. Would he have still complained had they been inattentive and unmindful of what they are supposed to do?


Okay, rant over. I'm actually happy that Dr. Jerry decided to attend an EF. I certainly don't think that he was just going so he could run home and be highly critical on his blog. Many of his thoughts were ones that I had when I first attended (though I was only 10 or so), so I can somewhat relate. What I can say is that he needs to attend more than just one Mass.

In regard to Low Mass, High Mass, I think that in particular musicians will be drawn to a High Mass even more so than the average person. At least, that's how it is in my case. I tend to notice that a lot. Because of that, it's probably that much harder to be able to appreciate a Low Mass. In a way, I had an advantage (I think) in that I knew the Low Mass before I knew I was a musician and still had the impatience of a child, so the shorter Mass worked well for me. Now I really like attending either one. I love the music and the chant at the Hight Mass, but at the same time sometimes the silence of the Low Mass is really good for meditation.

I hope that made some sense. It's nearly 3:00 AM here, so my thoughts might not quite be in order!

Well, I think I know what he means about the servers. I've seen servers trained with nearly robotic precision, and it is very distracting. There should be a natural fluidity that does not call attention to itself, but it can be lacking. The Roman way is more natural than a, say, Prussian way....

And really (you seem to be familiar with him) would it be worth the effort, his response to the EF is such a cliché?

In his defense, it sounds like he attended a cliche of an EF Mass.

I think he is a sincere a devout man who honestly is engaged and interested in Catholic tradition. His spirituality may never run in the direction that makes him prefer a Traditional Latin Mass, but I don't think he bears any malice or ill will toward traditionalism as such.

Under his leadership, WLP produced the best musical settings of the new translation of any of the "major" publishers (several chant-inspired ones, and even the contemporary ones were of excellent quality), and his concerns are much more focused on the practical issues facing average parishes than for any liturgico-political agenda.

I have found his difficulties with the new translation to be somewhat... I'm not sure.... basically, I disagree with him about the translation's problems, and I often feel like I don't know why he has the reactions he does to them. But under no circumstances do I think he's being anything other than sincere.

Also, he bought me dinner once. So, you know- there's that.

I should add though in seriousness, that you must remember that nothing says that Catholics should be attached to - or like - the TLM. Vatican II was a REFORM for a reason. And I think even Pope Benedict acknowledged that. In fact, the freeing up of permission to celebrate the TLM was specifically a permission because of the existence of those "attached" to the older mass. The pope didn't say that all should learn to love it.

I always find some of the anger on these topics puzzling. If he, or anyone else, never likes the TLM, I don't see why that's a problem. He doesn't seem to promote banal liturgy; he explicitly said that he was looking forward to beautiful choir singing, chant, and the organ. So it doesn't seem to me that his ideal liturgy feature puppets, bongo drums, and scantily clad women dancing on the altar. Maybe it's just the TLM specifically that he doesn't like. And I think that's ok.

I could be described as a Traditionalist but with a more broadminded approach to liturgy (progressive traditionalism?) than the caricature.

Sounds very intriguing. Hope you can expand on this theme sometime, BGP. : )

http://gottasinggottapray.blogspot.com/2013/10/mass-in-extraordinary-form-part-two.html

Update: He DID go to St. John Cantius.
Also- he plans to go back next week for an actual High Mass.

I recommend a traddie flash mob to welcome him and sweep him off to brunch afterwards.

If you think Cardinal Mahoney has never walked down an aisle accompanied by Widor's Toccata, you'd be wildly mistaken.

I do hope Jerry goes to a Missa Cantata or High Mass - I think it'll change his mind.

Also, I've met this fellow before in person. He's a delightful gentleman.

That Saint Sulpice organ is to die for! O how I wish it were mine.

and the Central European dominance of Midwestern Catholicism gave the Latin Mass a different, happier history in that region.

So true, even today the Europeans are able to inject a vibrance and joy into the traditional Latin Mass that is seldom replicated elsewhere. Actually the "swingingest" music I've ever heard at the TLM was this processional hymn from the Juventutem Mass in Madrid 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vXKHgVNmDg

Maybe this is trite and superficial, but I really believe the music which surrounds the TLM is largely what makes or breaks a person's attachment to it.

(I'm looking forward very much to hearing the music at the Summorum Pontificum celebration in Rome on Friday. The Schola Saint Cecile will provide the music and their director, Henri de Villers, has an amazing music program at his weekly Sunday Missa Cantata and the people sing the Ordinary and the antiphons with great enthusiasm and vitality.)

By the way, Dr. Galipeau wanted to comment here, but had some trouble registering on the forum today; maybe it'll work for him tomorrow.

And we have another excellent post,

http://gottasinggottapray.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/mass-in-extraordinary-form-and.html

with more interesting questions for us to answer.

Adam you are right, from his posts he seems a really 'great guy'.

I'm trying another tactic for registration: the CAPTCHA test is out, but instead people have to wait for me to manually approve registrations.

Yep, Ben. It's a good thing this site wasn't contracted out to Canada! LOL.

Welcome Bassorous! Good to have new people. I hate CAPTCHA tests, too. To my old eyes, they always look like something out of a demented fantasy novel. ;-)

+1 (or +2 or +3) to Adam Wood!! I was delighted to read this statement in Dr. Galipeau's part 2 posting:

...people like Adam Wood balance things out for me. Thanks, Adam, for your kind words and call to civility.