Teaching a Priest the Missa Cantata - Help Needed by This Afternoon
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    All you EF liturginerd types, I could use a little help, by tomorrow afternoon, if at all possible. I'm a fully qualified OF liturginerd, but I'm still learning about the EF.

    Update: Here's my final doc. Let me know how it looks:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/13-EhBsM6UQDAFQp5NmBTPGPCzUBHy_zxobHp4h6jGGw/edit?usp=sharing

    My pastor recently learned the low Mass, and has it down well. He wants me to teach him the missa cantata (without incense, for the time being). He is mainly concerned with what is sung (and not) and the details like sitting down, intonations, and the like). He can easily learn the needed chants. How does this look for an outline of things to show him?

    • Asperges (intoned while kneeling)
    • Sprinkle the altar then congregation
    • Return, chant dialog
    • He goes on as normal until the gloria, while I chant the Int and Ky (may sit during kyrie, if it is a long one)
    • Intones gloria with the same hand gesture as low Mass, continue reciting the gloria at "et in terra", then sitting down when done reciting. Go back to the altar when nearly done singing.
    • Dominus Vobiscum, collect, epistle sung
    • Gradual recited while being sung, sits down when finished recited, rise again when the alleluia begins.
    • When the alleluia chant begins, he prays the normal prayers before the gospel that he would pray at a low Mass, then proclaims the gospel as normal, chanting the dialogs and text of the gospel itself. No chanted dialog at the end.
    • Homily, then credo. Same process for the credo as the gloria.
    • Dominus Vobiscum chanted, then offertory chant begins.
    • Continue same as low Mass, until the preface dialog, which is sung.
    • Chants dialog and preface
    • Sung Per ipsum, praceptis, pater Noster, and I respond "sed libera".
    • rest of the prayers after sed libera as at a low Mass, until chanting the per omina and pax domini. After the pax domini, I begin the agnus dei, and he continues as at a low Mass.
    • The communion chant is begun at the appropriate time, no difference for him from a low Mass.
    • After communion, he chants the postcommunion, dominus vobiscum, and ite. Everything else from the pax domini until the end of Mass is at a low Mass, at least for the priest.


    Questions:
    • Recently, a priest whom I know is a stickler for rubrics chanted all the orations and readings recto tono (THANKS MATTHEW:) ), however, that Missa Cantata was on a weekday. Is it acceptable to sing them recto tono on a Sunday, if that is the difference between not having a sung Mass and having one?
    • Does he face congregation while intoning gloria and credo?
    • Does anyone have that link for the sung readings and collects for Sundays? The one tat was eventually published by cantius in a bound book. I can't seem to find it.
    • Most importantly, is the above outline everything I'll need to show him?
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
    Does anyone have that link for the sung readings and collects for Sundays? The one tat was eventually published by cantius in a bound book. I can't seem to find it.


    http://sanctamissa.org/en/canticum-clericorum-romanum/

  • Chrism
    Posts: 868
    During the choir's singing of the Gloria in excelsis and the Credo and other parts, the priest when not reciting his own parts will often bow or genuflect when the appropriate sections are sung by the choir (Et incarnatus, the Holy Name, simul adoratur, etc.).

    Dominus Vobiscum chanted, then the priest chants Oremus, then the priest recites quietly the offertory verse while the choir begins the offertory chant.

    The priest doesn't need to chant the Per ipsum, but only the Per omnia.

    The Leonine prayers are often omitted at Sung Mass.

  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
    And of course Cantius has an excellent video of a Missa Cantata without Incense:

    http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/tutorial/missa-cantata/video/missa-cantata-without-incense.html
    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    The celebrant chant sheets for the readings may be found in PDF form here at windsorlatinmass.org.

    Also, I believe the Schola Bellarmina of Belgium has a CD of the chanted Epistles and Gospels. I'll try to find a link for that now.
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    This is a helpful resource for any priest who celebrates the Missa Cantata in the EF: a 2-CD set containing all the Sung Epistles, Gospels and Prefaces of the Temporal and Sanctoral masses by the Schola Bellarmina of Belgium (221 tracks)

    From the description:

    "These pieces allow priests to better grasp the singing of mass and its specific elements like epistles, gospels and prefaces. The beauty of liturgy depends to a large part on the beauty of singing. In this area, the celebrant has an important role to play. This CD will therefore allow priests to celebrate in a correct and beautiful manner, which is often more effective than a sermon.

    It contains 92 epistles and 92 gospels (Temporal and Sanctoral), as well as all the prefaces in all the tonalities: ferial, solemn and solemnior. Listening to the corresponding tracks before an office will allow priests to learn quickly and celebrate correctly."

    The only problem is that you must order it from the Belgian website. I believe it might also be available from Angelus Press in the U.S. since they carry all the other Schola Bellarmina chant CD's.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    MHI, excusez-moi, s'il vous plaît. : )
    Thanked by 1MHI
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    BTW, MHI, can you remember any more titles of those cards you found in the choir loft? They were highly entertaining. Let's see, it was something about hurling Latin books, if I'm not mistaken.
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    If he has the skill to sing, there are (in the Liber Usualis, and probably elsewhere, separate tones for the Epistle and the Gospel. I don't have page numbers in front of me.

  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    I just saw this...
    The questions are being answered well. Let me add that I hope the priest finds a good MC soon. Many of these things are beyond the purview and responsibility of musicians, though its laudable that you're eager to help him!
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    Recordings (FREE) of the Epistle and Gospel can be found here:

    http://www.fsspolgs.org/liturgical2.html
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I find the EF fascinating. I've recently begun studying it, and I think I need to attend one or two before I really get comfortable with it.

    @Julie: C'est un plaisir connaître les françaises autres.

    My French can be bad sometimes, I did that one from memory. I'm trying to learn still! :-)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    MACW, it's kinda a weird situation, because he is in his last two weeks in the parish, so I'm just trying to get him "off the ground" before he leaves, since he really wants to, and I'm also a massive proponent for the sung liturgy over spoken, in both forms.

    I would also love to learn more myself, because in addition to the music, I love to MC the OF, so learning about the EF from a server's and MC's perspective is the next natural progression.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Thanks, all. Very helpful.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    MHI, merci beaucoup for the translation. That one was beyond my capabilities (college was many years ago, I'm afraid) but it was worth waiting for, and I suspect you have an abundance of leetel gray zells. : )
    Thanked by 1MHI
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Can anyone look this over and let me know if it looks good?

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/13-EhBsM6UQDAFQp5NmBTPGPCzUBHy_zxobHp4h6jGGw/edit?usp=sharing
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    update: I'm hoping to use this in two hours with my pastor, so if you have a chance, feel free to change any mistakes.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    Ben
    This looks to be a good start.
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    MHI
    "Ben, this link
    http://www.fsspolgs.org/liturgical2.html"

    Has both recordings and the notation, there are two links for each file, (with a few exceptions).
    Thanked by 1MHI
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
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  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    MHI, thanks so much for the link! This is an EXCELLENT resource. I know some priests who will be thrilled to have these recordings.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Am reviving this thread because I would like to find out where a priest can find the musical notation for the priest's (EF) sung parts for the Nativity of Mary as well as for various votive masses and saints days. I can find them for Sundays and feast days but not for other days of the year.

    Also, can anyone tell from the description below of this Schola Bellarmina CD entitled "Sung Epistles, Gospels and Prefaces" whether it includes saints' days and votive masses in addition to Sundays and major feast days?

    "These pieces allow priests to better grasp the singing of mass and its specific elements like epistles, gospels and prefaces. The beauty of liturgy depends to a large part of the beauty of singing. In this area, the celebrant has an important role to play. This CD will therefore allow priests to celebrate in a correct and beautifull manner, which is often more effective than a sermon.

    It contains 92 epistles and 92 gospels (Temporal and Sanctoral), as well as all the prefaces in all the tonalities: ferial, solemn and solemnior. Listening to the corresponding tracks before an office will allow priests to learn quickly and celebrate correctly.

    In all, 221 tracks on 2 CDs!"

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    P.S. I don't need it by this afternoon.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    If it is not online at Windsor Latin Mass, then email them for the parts. :)

  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Yes, it's there at Windsor Latin Mass website! Thanks so much for this. I'm very intrigued by the Schola Bellarmina CD as well. From what I can tell, it looks like saints' days and votive Mass chants would be included, along with Sundays and feast days. What a great resource for priests.
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